The 2019 Bordeaux are coming out.

WINE TALK
41

Interesting situation for Malescot St Exupery which is out (EUR35, -26%), not waiting on any score from critics. Or, at least, I couldn’t find a single one.

42

Someone reported in the Costco thread 2016 Cos was going for 169 for a long time, and then reduced to 129 and he cleared out the stock. Pagodes is always sub 50 and available year round.
EP price is not attractive. They need at least 35% off like the others.

43

2016 Malescot was a little over $50 regular price at Costco for so long. EP price from Malescot is just silly. Who wants to tie up money for 2 years + potential tariff when you know you can pick them up in a few years for similar price?

44

As a young wine taster who is just exploring wine, you would be much better off experimenting with many Bordeaux wines (young and old), deciding which styles you really love (if any), before you sink a bunch of money into wines that won’t arrive for 2 years, and probably won’t be drinking at peak for 10-25 years!

If in the next 2 years you decide you LOVE Bordeaux, then you can still buy the wines at retail, and the odds are that most of the wines will not be significantly more expensive than they are en primeur.

45

I was referring to Jeff giving us a sneak preview of his reviews of those two wines, not prices.

Jeff, I know that you’re going to publish your report next week but maybe you could post your reviews for the (“big”) releases from last week, this week and new ones as they come out?

46

Seems like the US and in general the export market has more opportunities (or more frequently at least) to get good pricing on these wines. Right now, after a cursory Google search, 2016 Malescot is unavailable in a lot of French wine sellers websites, and the ones which still list it sell it a 72-73 euros.

Now, you might get a good opportunity once a year, one year, when you have the Foire aux Vins in France (early fall) to get it at EP price or close but (i) you’re never sure that this particular wine will be available and (ii) the Foire aux Vins are a hassle.
Then again, there is no shortage of good wine so you could replace Malescot by another Margaux/Bordeaux but if you are fond of a particular estate, Primeurs might still be the right way to source, even if it’s not anymore the financial opportunity that it once was.

47

I do wonder, assuming things are relatively back to normal in two years, if we see the Bordelais significantly raise the shelf price. I have to think they know that people realize EP isn’t an interesting buying opportunity anymore, so why not make a statement when you priced 2019 EP at a sizable discount to prior vintages. Guess it depends how much 2014-2019 still needs to be sold by then.

48

Agreed. To paraphrase Victor I have zero interest in providing liquidity to the three-tier system at a time when it is systematically shifting more and more risk to the consumer…

49

Howard,

I’ve heard varying opinions on this. Sorry, but I don’t think there’s a clear definitive answer; it could well vary on a case by case basis and I am totally unqualified to make any further comment. Hopefully some growers can chime in.

Dan Kravitz

50

Per wine advocate, 2019 Cos is 14.02% alcohol.

51

Whenever I read a TN on this board for old Bordeaux I’m tempted to give it a shot… But it’s usually a lot of money for a single bottle that may or may not have been properly cellared. I was born after those wines were bottled, so I have no backlog to rely on for aged wines: I need to splurge and gamble, and that can easily go wrong.

52

You don’t have to go crazy expensive to get a good view on aged Bordeaux. You can find good bottles back to at least ‘86 for $50-$100. I think it it a lot more resilient to storage than people give it credit for. Sure you can get a bad bottle but I find that a rarity from reputable sources.

53

To pile-on what Lee said (all of which I agree with, by the way): just be smart with your back-filling. I am extremely conservative with the manner in which I backfill, and that approach has served me incredibly well over the years.

I never buy bottles with:

  • a protruding cork
  • signs of past seepage
  • a known history of not being stored in an actively-cooled cellar/fridge (I will make exception for wines stored in a passive cellar in cooler climates)
  • a fill that is any less than excellent for its age.

Buy from other wine geeks.
Buy from trusted sources.


My rules for back-filling absolutely have caused me to miss-out on some awesome bottles, no doubt. But it is an extremely rare occurrence that I feel I got a “bad bottle” when back-filling, therefore I like my strategy. Good luck!

54

I’m imagining the technical director debating between a 13.98% and a 14.02% blend when the boss steps in and says, let’s go with #2.

55

Everything you say makes total sense. I guess my main issue is that no two aged bottles of the same wine are the same, even if the bottle is perfectly sound. It has happened to me that I’ve tasted an old wine out of a perfectly fine bottle that was dead, all volatile acidity. Other people had had the same wine around the same time and had a hell of an experience (fortunately this has also been the case with me). You’re never really sure which one it will be.

My most recent old wine purchase which I’ve opened was a bottle which was structurally seamless, yet the bottom half of the cork dissolved into dust. It was probably cellared upright for way too long. I got it from Garrafeira Nacional, which is our biggest and most well known retailer. They advertise themselves as only selling sound bottles, which on the surface they do, but they could have bought them from other dealers or private owners not knowing how they were cellared. As far as Bordeaux goes, I see a lot of sellers who don’t put out any information on the bottle’s condition (I don’t think there’s anyone in Portugal selling aged Bordeaux, although it’s not a big deal for me to order from the rest of Europe).

56

[rofl.gif]

57

Tomas,

Bottle variation simply comes with the Aged Wine territory — might as well enjoy the unpredictable ride, if you can.

I would never buy an old bottle without knowing its condition ---- that’s just asking for a bad experience, imo. There’s tons of wine in this world, so no need to compromise. At least, that’s the way I see it.

58

Buying aged wine is riskier, period. If you’re buying online (which I necessarily will if I’m buying, say, aged Bordeaux) you can’t check the ullage, and you’ll have to accept the retailer’s blanket statement of ‘we cellar our wines in top notch conditions’. I’m 27, so I keep thinking that it makes more sense to buy newer vintages of stuff in general (in larger numbers) and wait for the magic to happen. Of course, the greatest wines I’ve had were aged and I’d love to have that experience more often, but so far I’ve usually relied on the goodwill of other people. I can buy a case of damn good stuff in my home turf for the price of a single 1980s 750cl bottle of Bordeaux, so right now it’s a titanic struggle between the itch of my curiosity and my sense of rationality in protecting my euros [pillow-fight.gif]

59

If I were 27 and had a little money, I’d for sure buy some of the higher quality bordeaux. There are a ton in 2018 and seemingly 2019. Some will age for a loooong time, some will be ready to drink in 10 years. If you have the proper storage for them, anyway.

My auction purchases have been mostly successful but I have had some serious duds, like a case of Massolino barolo that was totally cooked. That was an expensive lesson…

60

You all have great insight and opinions on both aged and new releases but perhaps this one could stay more in line with the new releases if that’s ok? This is a great site for valuable input, and with very few tasters so far, this site could not be more valuable right now as a way to: gather, distribute, make fun, provide insight, offer opinions, witty banter and provide tasting notes as they happen. My Two cents.