The Comprehensive Hypothetical Napa Classified Growth Lists (and what we might consider to be the current cult wines)

[Joe_Raymond]

VHR? Modern First Growth?

[William_Segui]

Kind of fun to look at the same place using both models. There’s certain wineries that are going to turn out top tier juice from any of their sites (or combination of).

To take this one step further, when you remove the estate component from a winery, what are we really talking about? The winemaker, how would one incorporate that into the matrix?

There’s also vineyards that I would consider Grand Cru, such as To Kalon (which you could say has “grands” sections and lesser sections a la Echezeaux) and is sourced by many wineries, or the “monopole” Thorevilos.

Is Thorevilos owned by Abreu? I didn’t know that.

[NoahR]

Come on, people, I think the answer is clear and obvious here.

[Eric_S_n_y_d_e_r]

Kind of fun to look at the same place using both models. There’s certain wineries that are going to turn out top tier juice from any of their sites (or combination of).

To take this one step further, when you remove the estate component from a winery, what are we really talking about? The winemaker, how would one incorporate that into the matrix?

There’s also vineyards that I would consider Grand Cru, such as To Kalon (which you could say has “grands” sections and lesser sections a la Echezeaux) and is sourced by many wineries, or the “monopole” Thorevilos.

Is Thorevilos owned by Abreu? I didn’t know that.

Maybe not a perfect example. I believe Abreu and Ric Forman planted it, and might still co-own/farm it. Forman occasionally takes fruit from it, but so far only blends into the Forman cab (like in 2015, per Galloni).

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

Kind of fun to look at the same place using both models. There’s certain wineries that are going to turn out top tier juice from any of their sites (or combination of).

To take this one step further, when you remove the estate component from a winery, what are we really talking about? The winemaker, how would one incorporate that into the matrix?

There’s also vineyards that I would consider Grand Cru, such as To Kalon (which you could say has “grands” sections and lesser sections a la Echezeaux) and is sourced by many wineries, or the “monopole” Thorevilos.

Is Thorevilos owned by Abreu? I didn’t know that.

I thought it was Thanos.

[Rob_S1]

I think most “1st growth” Napa wines are more Le Pin and Petrus than Latour and Margaux… Screagle is certainly Petrus.

[David_Bu3ker]

Is Thorevilos owned by Abreu? I didn’t know that.

I thought it was Thanos.

Oh snap!

[NoahR]

First Growths:
To Kalon (Mondavi, Macdonald)?
Screagle
Harlan
Scarecrow
Monte Bello (don’t care it’s not in Napa)

Second Growths (and I think these are probably Firsts in a lot of minds. Consistent over time though maybe not quite as Culty)
Dominus
Opus One
VHR
Maya
Heitz Martha’s

Third Growths
Schrader
HSS
Forman
Dunn
Colgin
Diamond Creek

Fourth Growths
Spottswoode
Abreu
Maybach
Phelps
DANA
Lokoya
Hundred Acre
Montelena
Peter Michael?
Other Beckstoffers? G3?
BOND
Corison



This is based on tasting, general reputation and price stability in the secondary market as I look at it today. Just throwing it out there.

I’m sorry but I don’t think Tusk makes top 30. And would love for history to include Mayacamas and Stags Leap and others, and the various Beckstoffer plots are problematic just as the various offerings from Schrader and others are problematic.

It may make more sense to use a more Burgundian look at GC vs PC terroir. Given the difference is style between benchland and mountain vineyards, there’s likely not much agreement there.

[Wes_Barton]

Eisele should be there. Known great site. Owned by a First Growth. Tended and made by veteran Chateau Latour folks.

[NoahR]

Eisele should be there. Known great site. Owned by a First Growth. Tended and made by veteran Chateau Latour folks.

Agree. Forgot that one.

I don’t know what to do about sites that have sold out to larger companies. Where does Schrader fit now? Kapczandy? And then the historical properties like Inglenook and Krug?

[David_K_o_l_i_n]

Eisele should be there. Known great site. Owned by a First Growth. Tended and made by veteran Chateau Latour folks.

My first instinct for First Growth

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

Off the top of my head, and off course some shuffling around after more thought (I went with vineyard and not producer):

1st

To Kalon
Martha’s
Eisele
Screaming Eagle
Dalla Valle
Herb Lamb
Diamond Creek


2nd
Bacchus
True
Weitz
Spottswoode
George III
Colgin IX
Tychson
Scarecrow (Waffling on 1st)
Bryant Family
Dominus
Shafer Hillside


3rd
Three Palms
Paragigm Oakville Estate
Bonny’s
Las Piedras
Hayne
Stagecoach
Larkmead
Vine Hill Ranch


4th and 5th

Too many to name

[Vince_T]

Lafite and Mouton each produce 15-20k cases of wine a year. Except for Opus One, you could probably fit every other mentioned vineyard into Lafite and then some. Even Petrus makes 2500 cases per year… multiple times the production of most Napa cult cabs.

[Gabe_Berk]

1st Growth:
Mondavi (To Kalon/Opus)
Chappellet
Heitz
Beaulieu Vineyards
Joseph Phelps
Stag’s Leap Wine Cellars

2nd Growth:
Screaming Eagle
Dominus
Harlan
Diamond Creek
Mayacamas
Chateau Montelena
Beringer
Bryant Family
Colgin
Shafer
Schrader


3rd Growth:
Spottswood
Kongsgaard
Araujo (Eisele)
Far Niente
Dunn
Forman
Lail
Groth
Dalla Valle
Cardinale
Scarecrow
Hundred Acre
Lakoya
Corison
Continuum
Realm

4th Growth:
Every Thomas Rivers Brown, Melka, Paul Hobbs, Ramey, Abreu, Barrett, Welch, Erickson, Touquette, Bevan consulted pet project for the rich where their initial bottle release is $200+

So many I know I’m missing.

[Mark_Golodetz]

I am not sure why you want to inflict a classification on the good wines of Napa.

Far from being a good thing, the 1855 classified growths has held the region back. By making it about brand rather than land, it soon became totally out of date, and only survives because of entrenched interests that keep it going.

At best it is a possible indication of quality, but can be incredibly misleading. For example in many instances, the land from the classification is completely different to the land it now holds. And of course, we all can point to wines which should be classified differently. When I did my own survey, I would reclassify around half of them.

Sadly, it has devolved into a marketing tool, and a pretty poor net at that. And if we look at other classifications, they are either irrelevant (Pessac/Graves) or incredibly litigious. As a fun mental exercise, fine, but hopefully, nobody will ever try and do this seriously.

[Wes_Barton]

3rd Growth:
Araujo (Eisele)

Yes, making blueberry milkshakes out of that fruit still made respectable wines, but that’s history. First Growth and a new benchmark for Napa. Back to traditional ripeness. No new oak…

[NoahR]

3rd Growth:
Araujo (Eisele)

Yes, making blueberry milkshakes out of that fruit still made respectable wines, but that’s history. First Growth and a new benchmark for Napa. Back to traditional ripeness. No new oak…

Of that list, you’re singling our Araujo for blueberry milkshake? That could apply to 2/3 of the list!!

[Rob_S1]

So as a vineyard where would Dr. Crane stand?

[NoahR]

So as a vineyard where would Dr. Crane stand?

Makes some great wines but was basically a reclaimed housing area that was supposedly the Chinatown of St. Helena in the 20’s. Was replanted to Cab-et-cetera in 1998, so hardly an historic site.

[K_John_Joseph]

This is fascinating. First Growths are First Growths in Bordeaux because of an 1855 ranking (with an amendment for Mouton). We’re ranking these today, right? If we looked at Napa today and said, let’s take the past 20-30 years because many have changed hands and many up and comers have since established themselves as lions, what do we have? Heitz, BV, Mondavi, Montelena, and Stags Leap wouldn’t have a chance in hell at being considered Tier 1 Napa wines. Maybe they were from 1960-1989, but not since. Lafite, Margaux, Latour et al. are still famous for producing the best wines of Bordeaux in each vintage. Those others aren’t doing anything close to that in Napa. So the list would, in my opinion, need to balance past performance with current performance.

I would probably start with:

FIRST GROWTHS:
Screagle
Colgin
Shafer Hillside
Abreu
Harlan
Dominus

SECOND GROWTHS:
Schrader
Scarecrow
Bond
Spottswoode
Realm
Hundred Acre
Hobbs Beckstoffer
Lokoya

THIRD GROWTH
Ridge MB
Montelena Estate
Carter
Kapscandy
Chappellet Pritchard Hill
Dunn (meh)
Corison
Phelps Insignia

Damn. This gets really tough.