The funniest article I have read this year

WINE TALK
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I forgive you. Anybody who drinks Tremblay Chapelle 2008 and loves it is ok by my book. Still think if you want to take old fogey swipes, you might want to make sure we understand that it was half satirical. But you can always appease me by sending me a bottle of the ‘08.

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Good evening Sir! I’ll echo what others have said, I’m glad you are here and sharing your thoughts with us. It’s tough to write a piece that advocates for an end to something that you, yourself seem to enjoy. Not an easy assignment. I hope you’ll continue to pop in here and shore more of your thoughts from time to time. Every unique voice only makes this place that much better.

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Outstanding scene. That movie may be Masdens best role.

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So now we are in “wine”, congratulating an author, for writing something neither we/nor he agrees with, in order to get a debate. Poppycock! The article was simply poppycock.

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The piece was tongue in cheek. It’s not remotely an earnest argument against aging wines. Well done, Oliver, and I echo the comments of others in hoping you’ll return and post occasionally.

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More please Sir!

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I’m sorry; you lost me here. Isn’t that sort of the price of entry?

I’m not sure I’d consider either of the wines you mention by name “aged,” and that further makes me question exactly what the factual predicate for the piece is. If you consider a 4 year old chablis “aged,” might I suggest that you join an off-line of Berserkers some time.

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OliverStyles wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:50 pm
This was a bit special in that I wasn’t necessarily being honest with the audience.

I admired the above lines.

While honesty should always be there when dealing with others - but to stretch some special points with your speech before the start of a war in your essay - it is necessary to do this : I wasn’t necessarily being honest with the audience.**

So they stated - in Chapter 22 : The Art of Wars.

No harms …at all …in my view as long as the audience is listening !!

At the beginning of Chapter 81 ( the last Chapter in Taoism )…it started with some lines like these : Truthful words are not beautiful; Beautiful words are not truth …

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One of the “joys” of writing a piece I did is that I’m wary of my own ploy being used against me…!

For the record, the Chablis was brought over by friends and the Tremblay…well, there were mitigating circumstances there but it was fantastic. I’m remarkably lucky that, with only 18 years in wine, I’ve managed to taste incredibly broadly (including very disappointing 1982 St-Emilion GC lineup many years ago!) but yes if ever I find myself in the States one day (soon, hopefully!) I’d love to join.

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i don’t think “natural” wine is trying to be a cheap and inadequate substitute of aged wines… I’m not sure why you have that impression. and I’m not a natural wine enthusiast by any stretch. i like a little oak and sulfur

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Yeah, it’s always dangerous to be over simplistic and paint with broad, vulgar strokes but I think Natural and Natural-adjacent wines (eg Orange wines) can take wine flavour profiles to places beyond straightforward red or tropical fruits etc. Ageing wine kinda does the same. It’s a pretty chunky argument but a lot of millenials, gen xers for the most part can’t afford to buy or cellar wines that would respond to ageing (although I think it is more and more likely even basic wines will age much better nowadays than, say, 20 years ago. But if you want to go beyond the basic fruit/primary fruit spectrum you have to look elsewhere (not just Natural wines). It’s just about exploring and enjoying different flavours, I think.

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[rofl.gif]

Where have you been the last couple of years?! [foilhat.gif]

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Have you read “discussions” on other places on the internet? I don’t recommend it, except that maybe it’ll cast WB into a better light for you.

[cheers.gif]

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Is Oliver Styles your real name or a nom de plume? It’s a pretty fun name.

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Of course not. His real name is Oliver Wiles.

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[rofl.gif]

I thought the same until I found his linkedin profile as well as his twitter account. Hey Oliver, @plugger_lockett from twitter here. I’m pleased you’re a member of WB, I’d much prefer to converse here than over there.

One of the things I wanted to mention to you is that while I understand why you wrote the piece, I don’t believe it (or much else for that matter) will really change the opinion of many people regarding their wine preferences. So to a certain extent it kinda feels like you’re yelling into the ether as most drinkers aren’t listening to begin with. And to be honest I think one of the biggest problems the ‘natural’ wine scene has is the obsession/hang up over people who don’t like natural wines, for whatever reason. There seems to be a lot of energy and effort to attempt to convert people who, to put it bluntly, aren’t interested in conversion. And that’s where I feel your article kinda misses the mark as I think the basis of your argument is itself flawed.

I do appreciate you fronting up here as well as responding on twitter. Good on you. And if you’re ever in Perth, hit me up. We’ll keep opening 50+ year old Piemontese wines until we find one that your palate appreciates. [cheers.gif]

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It is. No relation to the famed Harry, I’m sorry to say.

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If changing people’s minds was a consideration, I’d have giving up wine writing long ago!

I actually find the opposite, but it could be the experience on one side of the barricades is similar to that on the other! But that’s a fair point.

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I guess we’ve over-discussed the whole natural wine thing on this board, but since you’re new to posting here, Oliver (welcome, by the way), I’d like to comment on a couple of things you said.

Since I have never come across this argument, it seems to me to be a straw man. Maybe I’m wrong and have just stopped reading all of the articles complaining about natural wine, but this definitely doesn’t come up in discussions I see of it, even from its most vocal critics.

I see a lot of natural wine advocates being dismissive of this, without giving much thought to the fact that sensitivities to brettanomyces byproducts and certain bacterial faults (MLF bacterial problems, ethyl acetate, however one wants to categorize that, and mousiness) vary enormously. I know they do because some wines that many people love literally induce a disgust reaction and mild gag reflex in me. I am not exaggerating. In my years as a retail wine buyer, I could almost always tell a wine was made with little to no SO2 and no filtration before I was told, usually just by smelling it. And the mousy taint was often so unpleasant that I had to rush to take a sip of water or another wine immediately. It got to the point where, when I noticed severe bacterial problems on the nose (sauerkraut, vomit, etc.), I wouldn’t even put the wine in my mouth. So, yeah, to some people, the vast majority of natural wines have a major fault problem. Those people aren’t wrong, even though not everyone perceives things the same way. And in blind tasting, even people who like natural wines seem to have a much more difficult time identifying them compared to reasonably good quality clean wines. I think that does demonstrate that some of those microbial elements often obscure sense of grape and/or place.

I say all of this as someone who has no problem with the category’s popularity but does have a problem with some of the marketing schtick surrounding it. Oh, and one of my favorite wines in the world is Chateau Musar Rouge, especially when it’s old (25-30+ years). Take that for what you will.

I hope you’ll continue to post as the urge strikes you. It’s always nice to see more variety of opinions, even when I disagree.

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+1 on ‘aged’ - or not??? In regard to both wines.

(Neal you’re likely opening a can of worms here)