My recent experience was at the Wine Library super tasting held locally with hundreds and hundreds of wines; at one table that included some high end brunello, I immediately detected the wet newspaper smell and confirmed my suspicion by tasting. My 21 year old son was with me and I had him smell and taste it as a learning experience, and then I discreetly told the server I thought the wine was corked (the bottle was less than half full, so clearly many people had taste it before I did). He called over his boss from the distributor, who tasted it and immediately took it away, agreeing with me “100%.”
A lot of people in the trade are clueless about corkiness, Sherri. I had a similar experience to yours in a NY store 10 years ago where the distributor’s rep was pouring a ludicrously corked bottle. When we commented, she asked someone from the store, who sampled it and winced.
And I sent a TCA-riddled glass back in a wine bar once only to have the waiter say that the bartender didn’t see a problem.
Yep. Interestingly though, the article to which I link below suggests the difference between men and women is due to a difference in the capacity of the brain to process olfactory information rather than a difference in the receptors producing the information.
From the article, “The authors acknowledge that just finding this difference is not enough to prove that women have a superior sense of smell - it is not even enough to explain the findings of previous studies about differences in ability to differentiate, identify and remember scents and odors.”
I do believe that women have a better innate capacity when it comes to smell. This is raised by an order of magnitude during pregnancy as well.
I would also argue that women are far more capable in assigning attributes/descriptions to what they smell. On average, they are better at communicating meaningful tasting notes. I know that I certainly get my a$$ handed to me by my wife when it comes to tasting notes. She claims that she has an unfair advantage because women have been in “training” since a young age with perfumes and what not. I’m not sure about that but I certainly accept her authority in the matter.
As I’ve commented before, the wine industry does a pretty mediocre job of training people (esp. service folks) how to recognize TCA taint. Some servers have no idea it exists, and others
really don’t know how to recognize it. We’ve all had the experience of being served a terribly corked bottle or glass of wine and the server appeared to be clueless. It’s worse, though, when
it’s the sommelier/beverage director who claims “it’s supposed to taste (or smell) like that.” Or it’s a tasting room employee or winery rep. at a tasting who appears to be clueless.
I’m probably somewhat more sensitive to TCA that the average wine geek–whether it’s the taste receptors or just the tasting experience I really can’t say. When I’m tasting wine with other wine
geeks, I often am the first person to think a particular wine is corked. I do, however, think there is some power of suggestion. If someone hands you a glass and says they think it might be corked,
that can affect how you perceive the wine when you smell/taste it yourself.
I think this is definitely true. I’m one of those with the palate of a yak (I know it’s not luck because I’ve been to Vegas a few times). Cellartracker shows we’ve opened close to 4500 bottles over the past 12 years and I don’t recall ever being the first to call a bottle corked. But, when someone else says a bottle is corked, the wet dog/wet cardboard becomes so prominent, I really wonder how I missed it. I’d guess some of that is focusing on finding those particular aromas, but I also think the suggestion comes into play here.
I totally believe that to be true. My wife is far more sensitive to TCA than her oblivious husband (me… ) Often, when we are drinking at a restaurant, home, or a friends’ house…People tend to give her the first pour and ask, “what do you think?” When we go to a restaurant together, the server/sommelier always pours me first (surprise) and then i defer. Or, I simply say that she will taste as the bottle is being opened.
As previously mentioned, I had that exact case with a super premium wine new release earlier this year (Aromas were subdued or absent - no finish, etc.). I said slight taint, winery said heat damage. They said they will replace the wine regardless. But to the OP, my wife and I both agreed with the eval. which made me confident it was taint as we were familiar with that wine previously.
Loving this thread, folks - and just reinforces my belief that this continues to be one of the most evasive - and invasive - topics and ‘culprits’ in the wine biz. I’m glad that wineries are understanding these risks more now than ever before and switching to other types of closures, whether they be DIAMS, synthetics, or screw caps.
I just hope that we as an industry - and you as wine consumers - can help educate those who do not know what cork taint is about it. A couple of posters mentioned that they did not want to ‘spoil the enjoyment of others’ by letting them know that a wine is ‘corked’. I personally think this is ‘wrong’ as it simply allows many to continue to consume wines that are ‘sub par’ . . .
I would rate myself average to slightly above average sensitivity. Not normally the first to notice TCA in a wine but usually able to see the flaw once pointed out. I am confident that TCA sensitivity is genetic.
I was in a tasting group where a member of the group (Doctor D) was famously sensitive to TCA - to the point the tasting group ended up creating a TCA scale named after him. He was ALWAYS the first one to say “this wine is corked”
“1 Doctor D”: Only he can detect it, no one else in the group thinks there is anything wrong with the wine. Everyone else drinks the wine happily
“2 Doctor Ds”: After he has announced it is corked, over the next 10-15 minutes a few of the other tasters agree it is “probably” corked. Most will drink the wine
“3 Doctor Ds”: Doctor D will call it first, after 10mins a majority of the tasters agree. For a decent minority of tasters it is kind of ok but flat and dull and lacking freshness but not smelling bad. Only a few drink
“4 Doctor Ds”: This wine is corked, pretty much everyone agrees it is corked, a few tasters will put in their mouth to be sure but most stop as the smell. Basically after a few sips here and there, everyone stops
“5 Doctor Ds”: You can smell the mustiness/wet coardboard from across the room as soon as the bottle is opened. No one goes near it. Yuck.
The portion of this discussion that intrigued me the most is the idea that TCA merely masks the enjoyable aspects of a wine. Does this concept mean that if you are not sensitive at all to TCA you perceive the full benefit of the nose and palate of the wine even though it is “tainted?”
That is such an awesome question - but one that I don’t think can be objectively answered. For those who detect TCA, the wine is tainted. For those who don’t, there is no way to know if they would have enjoyed the wine more without the taint unless they are given two bottles wide by side - something I always suggest to those not familiar with cork taint.
But we’ve all been there - not wanting another sip of a wine e that is corked - but seeing the bottle 3/4 empty and seeing others seemingly enjoying it.
Just my personal experience, but I am a taster who is largely but not totally insensitive to TCA, and this is indeed how I experience it. When I drink with somebody much more sensitive, they will often taste a bottle as ‘very’ tainted, while I have it as ‘slightly’. Other times, I will taste a wine as just fine, but a more sensitive person will not be able to enjoy it.
I do understand the cause, and I know what taint “tastes” like, but when it is so mild that I don’t detect it, a wine can taste perfectly fine to me.
I can recall a number of times at organized tastings and tasting rooms when I insisted that a wine being poured was corked, and the server disagreed. Sometimes other tasters also picked up on the TCA, and sometimes not. When a second bottle was opened, even those who didn’t think the first one was corked now agreed the second bottle was better.
Larry, how is it possible that some Davis or Fresno grad student (heck, undergrad for the level of sophistication this would involve) hasn’t done the blind trials with a group of people, testing for TCA sensitivity, then testing multiple pairs of wine that have been doctored with just under the detection threshold for each person (as well as a range of purposely doctored concentrations)?
If one had identical TCA affected and untainted wines side by side, and was willing to use the good wine for the sake of discovery, it would not be difficult to test whether concentrations of TCA below the detectable threshold still suppress the flavors and aroma.
First, keep diluting until you are unable to detect the TCA, then have someone pour you blind pairs of the diluted, yet TCA affected wine, and the uncontaminated wine. You will need to have time out breaks to let your olfactory senses recover. Also, it is best to not swirl, in order to let the TCA accumulate in the bowl. See if you prefer the uncontaminated wine at a level better than chance. One trial won’t settle the issue, but if a lot of us make the effort, some pattern should become clear.
I could never be a somm. I’m very _in_sensitinve to TCA. It doesn’t affect other aspects of my taste, though. For example, I’m hugely sensitive to mold/mildew, which fortunately very rarely directly affects wine. But there was a time when a friend of mine, who is not sensitive to that particular thing, dried the wine glasses with a mildewed kitchen towel. I had to rewash the glassware before I could enjoy anything at the table. Weird how some folks are hyper sensitive to some things, and not to others. It’s no wonder we end up liking different stuff.
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) Often, when we are drinking at a restaurant, home, or a friends’ house…People tend to give her the first pour and ask, “what do you think?” When we go to a restaurant together, the server/sommelier always pours me first (surprise) and then i defer. Or, I simply say that she will taste as the bottle is being opened.![[berserker.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/8/8600bbd4810d342b8fbd4ffb62b4f0026275fd37.gif "berserker"){kind=small}
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