The New Yorker on Orange Wines

[Adam_Frisch]

Yes, it must depend on the maceration time and variety to an extent. And in Georgia the percentage of skins used in the fermentation is another variable.

In the east of the country (Kakheti) the tradition is to use all the skins, and throw the stalks in as well for good measure - while in the west they are traditionally more sparing in the use of skins, using smaller percentages or just macerating for a short time before the main fermentation in the qvevri. Those are the traditions, but it also varies from winemaker to winemaker, and what they want to achieve with a particular wine.

Agreed, maceration and phenolics is a whole science. I learned from last vintage that certain grapes do well with longer skin contact and other’s less so. Generally speaking, varieties that already are quite tannic can get overpowered and need a lot of time, and those that are a little less so seem to take nicely to it. Which seems pretty logical.

The American winemaker that runs Pheasant’s Tears in Georgia said that the stemmy inclusion will protect the wines better and make them age better than ones where just skins were used. But it also made them vegetal and a lot less accessible in the beginning. I thought that was pretty interesting. I myself have not used the stems except for on my rosé wine (and that’s only because the berries are to big to fit in destemmer!).

[Otto_Forsberg]

Agreed, maceration and phenolics is a whole science. I learned from last vintage that certain grapes do well with longer skin contact and other’s less so. Generally speaking, varieties that already are quite tannic can get overpowered and need a lot of time, and those that are a little less so seem to take nicely to it. Which seems pretty logical.

The American winemaker that runs Pheasant’s Tears in Georgia said that the stemmy inclusion will protect the wines better and make them age better than ones where just skins were used. But it also made them vegetal and a lot less accessible in the beginning. I thought that was pretty interesting. I myself have not used the stems except for on my rosé wine (and that’s only because the berries are to big to fit in destemmer!).

I’ve understood that John Wurdeman isn’t the winemaker there, but instead Georgian Gela Patalishvili.

I don’t know how much the stems affect the accessibility of the wines, but having very recently tasted dozens of kvevri wines made with the inclusion of skins, seeds and stems (most from either vintages 2018 or 2017), I really didn’t find any noticeably vegetal characteristics in the wines. On the contrary, I find those stemmy notes more noticeable in many Pinot Noirs or some Syrah wines.