This Weekends HDH Auction

[Rob_M1]

It seems like Produttori has really skyrocketed at these HDH auctions, this and the Del Posto one. Bottom line is pricing is all over the place though even with the same auction. A case of 1996 Giacosa Riserva Falletto went for $9K yesterday and $7K today I think. With that big of a gap hard to have any sense of what’s going to happen.

There were def some reasonable prices in this auction. I also picked up the case of 2013 F. Rinaldi Brunate today, which on a tax-adjusted basis came out to ~$55/btl all in.

[Glen_Gold]

2002 Leoville Poyferre hammered for $650 in the last auction and $1000 this one. That’s weird.

[HoosJustinG]

Why would some pay close to a grand for a case of 2011 Produttori del Barbaresco Montestefano? Pretty easy to find a lot cheaper at so many places.

I’m confused too. I’m tempted to take a drive to Total Wine, buy a bunch of recent release stuff that’s still on the shelf and drive another 18 minutes to the HDH warehouse to drop off wine for auction.

Seriously. I saw a bunch of items where I thought someone with time could exploit the arbitrage opportunities if one has some confidence from looking at recent auctions that the pricing for specific wines has been consistently reaching an inflated level and has a good chance to do so in the next auction.

Except that:

1. You need to consign huge amounts to pay reduced/no sellers premiums
2. [and most importantly] paying more for wine at auction than readily available retail prices is - by nature - irrational behavior. It seems to me that predicting an entire strategy on irrational behavior is very dangerous. Buying something like $500k worth of wine to get favorable terms and hoping that other people will act irrational is a recipe to potentially take a bath.

2002 Leoville Poyferre hammered for $650 in the last auction and $1000 this one. That’s weird.

In other auctions this Summer, the only deals that seemed to be consistently available were Bordeaux.

[Jayson_Cohen]

I’m confused too. I’m tempted to take a drive to Total Wine, buy a bunch of recent release stuff that’s still on the shelf and drive another 18 minutes to the HDH warehouse to drop off wine for auction.

Seriously. I saw a bunch of items where I thought someone with time could exploit the arbitrage opportunities if one has some confidence from looking at recent auctions that the pricing for specific wines has been consistently reaching an inflated level and has a good chance to do so in the next auction.

Except that:

1. You need to consign huge amounts to pay reduced/no sellers premiums
2. [and most importantly] paying more for wine at auction than readily available retail prices is - by nature - irrational behavior. It seems to me that predicting an entire strategy on irrational behavior is very dangerous. Buying something like $500k worth of wine to get favorable terms and hoping that other people will act irrational is a recipe to potentially take a bath.

2002 Leoville Poyferre hammered for $650 in the last auction and $1000 this one. That’s weird.

In other auctions this Summer, the only deals that seemed to be consistently available were Bordeaux.

I agree with everything you said.

And the last two days there were decent Bordeaux buys as well. I should have pulled the trigger on some Calon Segur. If the lots were a little smaller, so too would be my bank account.

[HoosJustinG]

Seriously. I saw a bunch of items where I thought someone with time could exploit the arbitrage opportunities if one has some confidence from looking at recent auctions that the pricing for specific wines has been consistently reaching an inflated level and has a good chance to do so in the next auction.

Except that:

1. You need to consign huge amounts to pay reduced/no sellers premiums
2. [and most importantly] paying more for wine at auction than readily available retail prices is - by nature - irrational behavior. It seems to me that predicting an entire strategy on irrational behavior is very dangerous. Buying something like $500k worth of wine to get favorable terms and hoping that other people will act irrational is a recipe to potentially take a bath.

2002 Leoville Poyferre hammered for $650 in the last auction and $1000 this one. That’s weird.

In other auctions this Summer, the only deals that seemed to be consistently available were Bordeaux.

I agree with everything you said.

And the last two days there were decent Bordeaux buys as well. I should have pulled the trigger on some Calon Segur. If the lots were a little smaller, so too would be my bank account.

I screwed the pooch yesterday on BDX. Missed out on some birth year stuff I’d wanted, and just got bitter and stopped paying attention to it. Looking back, I wish I paid more attention. Filled out some needs in California which had some good pricing in certain parcels, but outrageous pricing in others—guess it matters who is “tuned in” and/or which lots the private cellar consultants for the Uber rich actually bid on vs the ones they skipped. Eisele in particular was brutal which was a huge bummer for me as that’s one I collect, and this auction had some hole-fillers for me. I got some 08s and 09s which I needed, but missed out on a few others I wanted. Will hope Sotheby’s Cali auction this week is more reasonable, but I doubt it…

[David_Kubiak]

My impression was that the predictable things continued to be crazy, but that people are losing interest in what is not part of the craziness, particularly in Bordeaux. There were a number of bargains to be had in the Super Seconds, which didn’t seem so super, even in a great mature vintage like ‘82. One of the lots I took was a case of ‘01 VCC, a wonderful wine that is only getting better. With the premium it was still $100 a bottle cheaper than average on Wine Searcher. I also thought it was odd that there was no competition at all against my bid for an attractive Vogue lot. Ben Ferdinand just stood there looking a little perplexed.

And one thing I will never understand, especially with HDH, who are very particular about the storage of what they put in the auctions. Why will people pay more for a wine they will have to wait 15-20 years for than a mature wine from an outstanding vintage? And a related point. Does anybody really drink the young and absurdly expensive DRC wines, or do they just travel from auction to auction? (I was lucky to have gotten the accessible 2000 La Tache several years ago at Berns for $600.)

[Kelly_Walker]

David, I hear you. I did pretty good on the sale of 37 lots I had in that auction. I also grabbed a 1989 LMHB for $800. Man that is a great wine.

[David_Kubiak]

Kelly, Indeed it is!!

[David_Bu3ker]

2002 Leoville Poyferre hammered for $650 in the last auction and $1000 this one. That’s weird.

It’s not worth the $650. Maybe worth it at $500. Not much of a vintage for LP.

[Glen_Gold]

2002 Leoville Poyferre hammered for $650 in the last auction and $1000 this one. That’s weird.

It’s not worth the $650. Maybe worth it at $500. Not much of a vintage for LP.

Exactly. Nothing to see here - move along.

[Jayson_Cohen]

My impression was that the predictable things continued to be crazy, but that people are losing interest in what is not part of the craziness, particularly in Bordeaux. There were a number of bargains to be had in the Super Seconds, which didn’t seem so super, even in a great mature vintage like ‘82. One of the lots I took was a case of ‘01 VCC, a wonderful wine that is only getting better. With the premium it was still $100 a bottle cheaper than average on Wine Searcher. I also thought it was odd that there was no competition at all against my bid for an attractive Vogue lot. Ben Ferdinand just stood there looking a little perplexed.

And one thing I will never understand, especially with HDH, who are very particular about the storage of what they put in the auctions. Why will people pay more for a wine they will have to wait 15-20 years for than a mature wine from an outstanding vintage? And a related point. Does anybody really drink the young and absurdly expensive DRC wines, or do they just travel from auction to auction? (I was lucky to have gotten the accessible 2000 La Tache several years ago at Berns for $600.)

I saw you buy the 2001 VCC! Was tracking that lot. I was tempted. Good price.

[Marcu_Stanley]

I don’t think it’s that Bordeaux is not interesting to people, it’s that there is an enormous lake of excess supply in Bordeaux so there simply aren’t the supply limitations to drive prices to crazy levels. But when you consider how widely available Bordeaux is at retail people are still paying a good amount at auction.

Speaking of which, the 2001 VCC is a great wine, but $220 / bottle for an “off vintage” of VCC would not have been viewed as a great bargain a few years ago…

[Jayson_Cohen]

I don’t think it’s that Bordeaux is not interesting to people, it’s that there is an enormous lake of excess supply in Bordeaux so there simply aren’t the supply limitations to drive prices to crazy levels. But when you consider how widely available Bordeaux is at retail people are still paying a good amount at auction.

Speaking of which, the 2001 VCC is a great wine, but $220 / bottle for an “off vintage” of VCC would not have been viewed as a great bargain a few years ago…

The price has gone up a lot on VCC in the last few years. And the 2001 is a good wine. But I did look back at what I paid per bottle at auction in May 2016: $105 hammer.

[John_J]

My impression was that the predictable things continued to be crazy, but that people are losing interest in what is not part of the craziness, particularly in Bordeaux. There were a number of bargains to be had in the Super Seconds, which didn’t seem so super, even in a great mature vintage like ‘82. One of the lots I took was a case of ‘01 VCC, a wonderful wine that is only getting better. With the premium it was still $100 a bottle cheaper than average on Wine Searcher. I also thought it was odd that there was no competition at all against my bid for an attractive Vogue lot. Ben Ferdinand just stood there looking a little perplexed.

And one thing I will never understand, especially with HDH, who are very particular about the storage of what they put in the auctions. Why will people pay more for a wine they will have to wait 15-20 years for than a mature wine from an outstanding vintage? And a related point. Does anybody really drink the young and absurdly expensive DRC wines, or do they just travel from auction to auction? (I was lucky to have gotten the accessible 2000 La Tache several years ago at Berns for $600.)

I saw you buy the 2001 VCC! Was tracking that lot. I was tempted. Good price.

VCC?

[Jean_Menwa]

Why would some pay close to a grand for a case of 2011 Produttori del Barbaresco Montestefano? Pretty easy to find a lot cheaper at so many places.

Based on wine-searcher PRO…not really easy to find at so many places (some cheese shop and Wizer’s)…I wonder if provenance matters on this one.

[Kelly_Walker]

My impression was that the predictable things continued to be crazy, but that people are losing interest in what is not part of the craziness, particularly in Bordeaux. There were a number of bargains to be had in the Super Seconds, which didn’t seem so super, even in a great mature vintage like ‘82. One of the lots I took was a case of ‘01 VCC, a wonderful wine that is only getting better. With the premium it was still $100 a bottle cheaper than average on Wine Searcher. I also thought it was odd that there was no competition at all against my bid for an attractive Vogue lot. Ben Ferdinand just stood there looking a little perplexed.

And one thing I will never understand, especially with HDH, who are very particular about the storage of what they put in the auctions. Why will people pay more for a wine they will have to wait 15-20 years for than a mature wine from an outstanding vintage? And a related point. Does anybody really drink the young and absurdly expensive DRC wines, or do they just travel from auction to auction? (I was lucky to have gotten the accessible 2000 La Tache several years ago at Berns for $600.)

I saw you buy the 2001 VCC! Was tracking that lot. I was tempted. Good price.

VCC?

Vieux Chateau Certan (Pomerol)

[John_J]

I saw you buy the 2001 VCC! Was tracking that lot. I was tempted. Good price.

VCC?

Vieux Chateau Certan (Pomerol)

Thanks

[David_Kubiak]

The cheapest price on Wine Seller I find for the 2001 VCC is $285 a bottle. And I think the wine is one of those that stands way above the vintage in quality. If you read Parker’s book he has a quote from Alexandre Thienpont saying the wine has a ‘profound depth and unctuosity that even the 2000 does not possess’. Nobody doubts that prices go up. I bought a case of ‘78 Las Cases for $160 when it was released. My observation was a relative one based on what would be expected vs. what is being paid. I think the idea that Bordeaux has been ‘cursed’ with too many good vintages of late is astute.

[David_Kubiak]

I meant ‘Wine Searcher’ of course.