TN: 2014 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Le Mont (France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray)

[Jayson_Cohen]

@Brad Kane

I’m pretty much in line with Jayson. Of course, we’ve been drinking Chenin together for around 20 years at this point…

I’ve always found the Taille au Loups too oaky and I think they consistently pick too early. I’ve also never had a Saumur Chenin that I’ve found remotely close in quality to that of a top Vouvray producer and that includes Clos Rougeard, which I also find way too oaky, but ymmv.

I think Jacky Blot’s wines (Taille au Loups) have been sort of a moving target and not so consistent. Sometimes very good but I’m not always sure what to make of them, and the aged ones haven’t impressed me next to the other producers we are talking about in this thread. There is also the wood issue. Relative hipster status hasn’t convinced me otherwise either.

Unlike Brad, I think Rougeard’s Chace and Breze can be brilliant, and have aged very well, but I am priced out. I’m not willing to trade 3 or more bottles of Huet Le Mont or Clos du Bourg for one Rougeard white. I have liked occasional other Saumur whites — not Guiberteau — but i have to allocate my dollars, and it ain’t here.

There are convincing Savennieres. Worth some exploration. Mosse. Sometimes Domaine aux Moines. Previously Closel. Cherry picking Joly if you want to spend. Again that’s not where I spend anymore. For Mosse probably a mistake. For the others they don’t scratch an itch. But happy to drink someone else’s bottle.

[Brad_Kane]

You need to try Closel again, Jayson. They’re back on form since she started picking early again and ditched the oxidative style she started I think with the '99. I believe Evelyne said she changed with the '13s. The freshness and verve is back. Unfortunately, the Clos Papillon is now around $45, not $20…

[Warren_Taranow]

@Michae1 P0wers

I have had three bottles of the Choiselles between January of 2016 and July of 2017, two of which were badly oxidized and one of which was less badly oxidized but still down the drain.

CT notes show extremes; they’re either stellar or dead. Maybe a bad batch?
I’ll have to visit my ‘14 Chidaines. I bought Les Choiselles, and both the regular and the Franc de Pied Les Bournais.

Getting back to the Huets; in the 2010 vintage, I went deep on the secs (no snide comments please, that’s too easy), and I’m still drinking through them. They’re still fresh, and I don’t recall an awkward phase, although there may have been a year or two in the interim when I didn’t open any.

Cheers,
Warren

[Josh_Grossman]

Anyone try their sparklers? 2009 Domaine Huet Sparkling, Chenin Blanc | WineBid

[Edward_H_Earles]

@Warren Taranow

@Michae1 P0wers

Getting back to the Huets; in the 2010 vintage, I went deep on the secs (no snide comments please, that’s too easy), and I’m still drinking through them. They’re still fresh, and I don’t recall an awkward phase, although there may have been a year or two in the interim when I didn’t open any.

Cheers,
Warren

I had a bunch of the 10s and I agree. I’ve already drunk through them, finished the last one last summer (they were so goooood!), but they never appeared at all awkward.

[Brad_Kane]

With Vouvray from Huet and Foreau, it used to be that you could enjoy them for about a year or two before they’d start to shut down and then you didn’t really want to bother them until at least about twelve years from vintage. That changed, ironically, with the '02, which was thoroughly enjoyable and open from day until they started to show their premox issues around 2010/'11. However, I’m not sure the old rules still apply given global warming and riper wines with higher alcohol levels. They still somewhat apply to Foreau, which tends to make their secs and demi-secs in a leaner, less generous style than Huet does, in my experience.

[Alan_Rath]

@Brad Kane

I’ve always found the Taille au Loups too oaky and I think they consistently pick too early. I’ve also never had a Saumur Chenin that I’ve found remotely close in quality to that of a top Vouvray producer and that includes Clos Rougeard, which I also find way too oaky, but ymmv.

I haven’t had that many of the Loups wines, but a 15 I had recently (Clos Michet) was quite good, particularly for what I was expecting from the vintage. Also haven’t had many Rougeard Breze, but every one I’ve had has been stellar. So if there’s oak there, it must be that Raveneau kind of oak

[Jim_Hanlon]

@Alan Rath

@Rama Roberts

Your recommendations on Austrian Riesling were right in my wheelhouse, delivering that crisp minerality in spades. Who are your favorite Chenin producers from the Loire?

Taille Aux Loups and Guiberteau are the two I’ve been most impressed by recently. Neither has much presence on the west coast, but you can find them if you look.

I generally lost interest in Huet after Pinguet left. It helps that I have a lot of wine from his era in my cellar, so easier to pass on the new era. One producer who I am surprised not to see mentioned is Francois Pinon. Lower production and require some looking, but very high quality and interesting Vouvray.

[Jayson_Cohen]

@Josh Grossman

Anyone try their sparklers? 2009 Domaine Huet Sparkling, Chenin Blanc | WineBid

I didn’t like the 2009 Huet Reserve on release. Too burly and clunky to my taste. Which doesn’t mean it won’t transform in the cellar but I much preferred the more playful and transparent 2010.

Petillant can be a great wine that can age well, in some cases for decades, and become very complex.

[Alan_Rath]

@Jim Hanlon

I generally lost interest in Huet after Pinguet left. It helps that I have a lot of wine from his era in my cellar, so easier to pass on the new era. One producer who I am surprised not to see mentioned is Francois Pinon. Lower production and require some looking, but very high quality and interesting Vouvray.

Remind me, what was the disagreement? He wanted to make more Sec wines, or more sweet wines than the new owners? I wonder if they are growing to emphasize the Demi wines and above, which isn’t optimum for the Sec wines?

[Brad_Kane]

@Alan Rath

@Brad Kane

I’ve always found the Taille au Loups too oaky and I think they consistently pick too early. I’ve also never had a Saumur Chenin that I’ve found remotely close in quality to that of a top Vouvray producer and that includes Clos Rougeard, which I also find way too oaky, but ymmv.

I haven’t had that many of the Loups wines, but a 15 I had recently (Clos Michet) was quite good, particularly for what I was expecting from the vintage. Also haven’t had many Rougeard Breze, but every one I’ve had has been stellar. So if there’s oak there, it must be that Raveneau kind of oak

Now, I hate oak in whites and I generally dislike Chardonnay, but I do like Raveneau.

As for the beef at Huet, I believe it was the Hwangs wanted to focus more on Secs and Pinguet wanted to continue to make what the vintage dictated and also not reduce their demi-sec and sweet wine production, which is what the domaine was built on.

[Brad_Kane]

@Jim Hanlon

@Alan Rath

@Rama Roberts

Your recommendations on Austrian Riesling were right in my wheelhouse, delivering that crisp minerality in spades. Who are your favorite Chenin producers from the Loire?

Taille Aux Loups and Guiberteau are the two I’ve been most impressed by recently. Neither has much presence on the west coast, but you can find them if you look.

I generally lost interest in Huet after Pinguet left. It helps that I have a lot of wine from his era in my cellar, so easier to pass on the new era. One producer who I am surprised not to see mentioned is Francois Pinon. Lower production and require some looking, but very high quality and interesting Vouvray.

The new team suffered from terrible vintages in '11-'13. They’ve made terrific wines in '14, '15 and '16.

As for Pinon, super guy and I love his wines. Consistently excellent year after year, but I put him behind Huet and Foreau. I love Chidaine, too, but I find his wines don’t age as well as the others.

[Julian_Marshall]

Sadly I think that Blot and Chidaine’s wines’ quality has decreased in inverse proportion to their prices. Obviously they have greatly suffered from a lack of quantity in recent years, but what were good value wines are not anymore. Nobody has mentioned Champalou - which are slightly cheaper and which age better.
As for Huet, well, I’ll start buying them again when they rescind their ban on Chris Kissack, probably the most scandalous treatment of a critic ever.
In Savennières, I strongly recommend trying Domaine FL (Château de Chamboureau), one of only a few producers not to go down the malolactic road which has led so often to premox problems - Closel, Baumard, Laureau for example. I hear that Laroche wines have greatly improved too.

[Edward_H_Earles]

@Brad Kane

The new team suffered from terrible vintages in '11-'13. They’ve made terrific wines in '14, '15 and '16.

Are we drinking the same wine? I thought the '11 was even better than the '10!

[Jay_Miller]

@Jayson Cohen

@Josh Grossman

Anyone try their sparklers? 2009 Domaine Huet Sparkling, Chenin Blanc | WineBid

I didn’t like the 2009 Huet Reserve on release. Too burly and clunky to my taste. Which doesn’t mean it won’t transform in the cellar but I much preferred the more playful and transparent 2010.

Also behind the 2005 IMO.

And I had such high hopes for my case of the 2002 Huet Petillant which was gorgeous on release

[Jay_Miller]

@Alan Rath

I’m also to the point where I think there are too many other good Loire Chenin producers out there doing a better job than Huet.

I find this a very puzzling statement though I’ll admit the last vintage I bought was 2010.

Most of my Vouvray purchases these days are Pinon as the value is ridiculous.

[Joseph_MR]

@Jayson Cohen

@Josh Grossman

Anyone try their sparklers? 2009 Domaine Huet Sparkling, Chenin Blanc | WineBid

I didn’t like the 2009 Huet Reserve on release. Too burly and clunky to my taste. Which doesn’t mean it won’t transform in the cellar but I much preferred the more playful and transparent 2010.

Petillant can be a great wine that can age well, in some cases for decades, and become very complex.

I tasted the 2010 pétillant a year ago, and thought it was delicious. I’m holding half a case of the 2007 to see where it goes. The last bottle of this I drank several years ago was still quite steely, although the one before that had advanced to a golden, raisiny richness, so there is some variation. Getting back to the 2014 Choisilles, I opened one last Fall after reading positive reviews. Nothing brown or oxidized about it, but it was showing very little: will wait maybe three years before trying another.

[David_K2]

Since this thread has turned into a sort of assessment of the state of the 2014s, particularly Chidaine, I thought I’d post the latest example - this time the Argiles:

• 2014 François Chidaine Vouvray Sec Les Argiles - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray (3/9/2018)
  It’s clear by now that the 2014 Chidaines are not in a happy place. At best, many are showing tired; at worst, people are reporting them to be advanced or already oxidizing. Like the Breuil, this is not as exciting and lively as it was on release, and it’s coming across as a little burnished and disjointed. I’m not ready to call it advanced, but the 2014s do seem to be throwing off advanced aromas, even if they aren’t technically oxidized. This was still good but just seems to be aging on a fast-track. Could just be a phase - I hope so as I still have a bunch of the 2014s.

Posted from CellarTracker

[Alan_Rath]

Thanks for the data point David. Dang, I just brought home a few 10s from my locker to line up for drinking. May have to re-think that and drink 14s first.

[Russ_Williams]

@David_K

Since this thread has turned into a sort of assessment of the state of the 2014s, particularly Chidaine, I thought I’d post the latest example - this time the Argiles:

• 2014 François Chidaine Vouvray Sec Les Argiles - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray (3/9/2018)
  It’s clear by now that the 2014 Chidaines are not in a happy place. At best, many are showing tired; at worst, people are reporting them to be advanced or already oxidizing. Like the Breuil, this is not as exciting and lively as it was on release, and it’s coming across as a little burnished and disjointed. I’m not ready to call it advanced, but the 2014s do seem to be throwing off advanced aromas, even if they aren’t technically oxidized. This was still good but just seems to be aging on a fast-track. Could just be a phase - I hope so as I still have a bunch of the 2014s.

Posted from CellarTracker

You still have a bunch…heck I still have a boatload and have yet to open a bottle. I have no choice but to have high hopes these are just going through a phase. I reckon I need to open a few and see for myself.