TN: 2014 Maison Albert Bichot Côte de Nuits Villages

[Robert_Sand]

Not sure if there is some sort of a language barrier here but I most definitely was not saying that one should go for a label that does not clearly state the region, appellation and the possible vineyard as well. I am all for stating the region/appellation/vineyard on the label, however of course Bichot’s labels are particularly unattractive otherwise.

I am not sure about Level’s French labels - on the other hand they look pretty cool but if you don’t know the wine and see it from a distance you would never know what’s inside the bottle. Give me Allemand every day of the week

Odd. Theres clearly “Grand vin de Bourgogne” on the label - that´s Burgundy.
The Appellation is “Cotes de Nuits-Village” - and since this is a negociant most probably it´s a cuvee from several sources, so no vineyard (which isn´t required at all). Sure you should know where Cotes-de-Nuits-Village is –
One should better do his homeworks first before complaining about a (correct if not pretty) label.

Allemand is a small producer, and if you don´t know him you have to look hard for the “Reynard” or “Chaillots” designation. And there is also a Cornas without vineyard -
Same for Levet -

Well now you got me really confused. Sure, English is not my first language but I really have no idea where your comment is coming from. I have not knowingly written anything about Bichot’s labels not being correct in any way as they are most certainly as classic as possible. What I tried to say above (and apparently failed miserably) is that this is exactly how I believe Burgundian labels should be (in comparison to let’s say some of Prieure-Roch’s labels), even if in Bichot’s case they could be easier on the eyes.

On the other hand my comment about Allemand’s labels was a stylistic one; I was saying to Greg that were I to have a winery of my own I would go for labels similar to Allemand’s instead of Levet’s French labels. Is my English really that hard to understand? I am asking honestly here.

Well, English is also not my 1st language - and it well may be that I misunderstood something in your posting … in that case I apologize - the Bichot label is correct … but quite unattractive …

[Howard_Cooper]

I do need to taste Burgundy from really good producers, could not agree more.

Adam, this was not criticizing. It was really a comment if you found this wine so good, you really are going to like better stuff. I remember from another thread how you were interested in trying Burgundy. Frankly, I was surprised you liked it so much based on the wine you tried - although I have not tasted Bichot regional wine in decades so that they may be much better than they once were. Actually, you should be excited about the possibilities (other than cost) if you liked this one this much. I do note that stylistically Burgundies from one village or producer can be much different than Burgundies from another village or producer. So, you might like this one more than you would like another “better” wine that is not as much in the style you like. I know that for me there are “great” producers whose wines I do not like and other producers that I probably like more than a lot of other people do because they are stylistically much more what I like.

[IlkkaL]

Odd. Theres clearly “Grand vin de Bourgogne” on the label - that´s Burgundy.
The Appellation is “Cotes de Nuits-Village” - and since this is a negociant most probably it´s a cuvee from several sources, so no vineyard (which isn´t required at all). Sure you should know where Cotes-de-Nuits-Village is –
One should better do his homeworks first before complaining about a (correct if not pretty) label.

Allemand is a small producer, and if you don´t know him you have to look hard for the “Reynard” or “Chaillots” designation. And there is also a Cornas without vineyard -
Same for Levet -

Well now you got me really confused. Sure, English is not my first language but I really have no idea where your comment is coming from. I have not knowingly written anything about Bichot’s labels not being correct in any way as they are most certainly as classic as possible. What I tried to say above (and apparently failed miserably) is that this is exactly how I believe Burgundian labels should be (in comparison to let’s say some of Prieure-Roch’s labels), even if in Bichot’s case they could be easier on the eyes.

On the other hand my comment about Allemand’s labels was a stylistic one; I was saying to Greg that were I to have a winery of my own I would go for labels similar to Allemand’s instead of Levet’s French labels. Is my English really that hard to understand? I am asking honestly here.

Well, English is also not my 1st language - and it well may be that I misunderstood something in your posting … in that case I apologize - the Bichot label is correct … but quite unattractive …

No worries mate!

[Tomas_Costa]

I do need to taste Burgundy from really good producers, could not agree more.

Adam, this was not criticizing. It was really a comment if you found this wine so good, you really are going to like better stuff. I remember from another thread how you were interested in trying Burgundy. Frankly, I was surprised you liked it so much based on the wine you tried - although I have not tasted Bichot regional wine in decades so that they may be much better than they once were. Actually, you should be excited about the possibilities (other than cost) if you liked this one this much. I do note that stylistically Burgundies from one village or producer can be much different than Burgundies from another village or producer. So, you might like this one more than you would like another “better” wine that is not as much in the style you like. I know that for me there are “great” producers whose wines I do not like and other producers that I probably like more than a lot of other people do because they are stylistically much more what I like.

This is a great point, and sadly there is no replacement for actually taking the plunge and trying the wines yourself: a CT tasting note is the opinion of someone you don’t know, in a specific moment and environment, using limited vocabulary. For instance, I have enjoyed both Hudelot-Noellat and Rossignol-Trapet, which are producers you’ve always praised, but I know someone for whom I have extraordinary respect - very experienced in Burgundy - who doesn’t like RT. I might have never tried those wines if I had only listened to that opinion, as much as I respect it.

I believe wine lovers who have been buying and cellaring for many years are subconsciously biased in the judgements they pass. I absolutely don’t mean this as criticism: even I’m guilty of that, and I’m a broke chump. My non-wine lover friends, whose exposure to wine is limited to cheap supermarket trash, think my daily drinkers are God’s nectar. If you’ve got a cellar full of aged great Burgundy which you bought at significantly lower prices than what they sell for today, your impression of what quality means is going to be different, and you won’t be impressed by something that might be lovely for someone else.

[Adam_Frisch]

I do need to taste Burgundy from really good producers, could not agree more.

Adam, this was not criticizing. It was really a comment if you found this wine so good, you really are going to like better stuff. I remember from another thread how you were interested in trying Burgundy. Frankly, I was surprised you liked it so much based on the wine you tried - although I have not tasted Bichot regional wine in decades so that they may be much better than they once were. Actually, you should be excited about the possibilities (other than cost) if you liked this one this much. I do note that stylistically Burgundies from one village or producer can be much different than Burgundies from another village or producer. So, you might like this one more than you would like another “better” wine that is not as much in the style you like. I know that for me there are “great” producers whose wines I do not like and other producers that I probably like more than a lot of other people do because they are stylistically much more what I like.

Oh, I didn’t take it that way all. I’ve just taken a bit of a break from Pinot Noir, so I think I’ll extend that to Burgundy for now, despite them being stylistically quite different from New World. This one just happened to be at the grocery store at a good price, so I grabbed it.

[Marcu_Stanley]

BTW, what’s the deal with French wine labels? It’s like where design goes to die. I never see any art directed labels from France, they all look pretty much like this. Stale, old, always invoking royal decrees, medallions or crests and hasn’t changed since the turn of the last century. That would be amazing if it somehow spoke timeless tradition, but it doesn’t in most of them - they just feel neglected and forgotten design-wise.

After collecting wine for 20 years the French have trained me to almost prefer ugly labels – like if there’s abstract art or an animal on the label I have a pavlovian “this must be bad” reaction, if there’s a monochromatic picture of somebody’s house/chateau with a bunch of AOC info on it it’s like “I’m home!”

There are some great American producers with ugly labels too – see Togni who I love. Ugly label = authenticity! No money to waste on design consulting, it’s all in the wine!

[Howard_Cooper]

I do need to taste Burgundy from really good producers, could not agree more.

Adam, this was not criticizing. It was really a comment if you found this wine so good, you really are going to like better stuff. I remember from another thread how you were interested in trying Burgundy. Frankly, I was surprised you liked it so much based on the wine you tried - although I have not tasted Bichot regional wine in decades so that they may be much better than they once were. Actually, you should be excited about the possibilities (other than cost) if you liked this one this much. I do note that stylistically Burgundies from one village or producer can be much different than Burgundies from another village or producer. So, you might like this one more than you would like another “better” wine that is not as much in the style you like. I know that for me there are “great” producers whose wines I do not like and other producers that I probably like more than a lot of other people do because they are stylistically much more what I like.

This is a great point, and sadly there is no replacement for actually taking the plunge and trying the wines yourself: a CT tasting note is the opinion of someone you don’t know, in a specific moment and environment, using limited vocabulary. For instance, I have enjoyed both Hudelot-Noellat and Rossignol-Trapet, which are producers you’ve always praised, but I know someone for whom I have extraordinary respect - very experienced in Burgundy - who doesn’t like RT. I might have never tried those wines if I had only listened to that opinion, as much as I respect it.

I believe wine lovers who have been buying and cellaring for many years are subconsciously biased in the judgements they pass. I absolutely don’t mean this as criticism: even I’m guilty of that, and I’m a broke chump. My non-wine lover friends, whose exposure to wine is limited to cheap supermarket trash, think my daily drinkers are God’s nectar. If you’ve got a cellar full of aged great Burgundy which you bought at significantly lower prices than what they sell for today, your impression of what quality means is going to be different, and you won’t be impressed by something that might be lovely for someone else.

I agree that Hudelot-Noellat and Rossignol-Trapet demonstrate just was positing. I love both their wines, but they are very different in style and I could easily imagine liking one but not the other.

[Adam_Frisch]

After collecting wine for 20 years the French have trained me to almost prefer ugly labels – like if there’s abstract art or an animal on the label I have a pavlovian “this must be bad” reaction, if there’s a monochromatic picture of somebody’s house/chateau with a bunch of AOC info on it it’s like “I’m home!”

There are some great American producers with ugly labels too – see Togni who I love. Ugly label = authenticity! No money to waste on design consulting, it’s all in the wine!

That’s an interesting point of view. And I know what you mean. I follow CF Napa (probably the largest design firm for beverage companies in the US) and more often than not for new brands they all fall into what I consider a trap: false legacy. The amount of brand new wineries and brands that try to imply centuries old tradition or “estate-ness” is staggering. I can see the false colors pretty easily, but it must work somehow, because it’s by far the most popular design route to take. There are other tropes like you hinted at: animals and insects on label. They are often in themselves a sub-category of that “false legacy” group, often made in a style that invokes old prints or historical illustration. And if you go to the natural wine world, you’ll see a mess of whimsical, colorful, finger-painting, water color, child-like style art labels - a trope in itself. It’s like the hippies all started a natural wine label design company where they coudl finally get rid of their Topanga colony art.