TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

[Gerhard_P]

René once told me that his uncle Marcel G-D was a fantastic wine-grower (a genius in the vineyards), but only a mean wine-maker (in the cellar) … he more or less let everything go … which sometimes turned out fine, and sometimes … well, less good …

Sounds like the disparaging remarks of the younger generation in the Langhe in the 80s and 90s about their fathers, as they started to use new barriques – as Rostaing did in the same period.

I think Rostaing may in the minority in his view of Gentaz.

Quite a wrong comparison. René rarely used more than 30% new oak, and usually mostly 450 l foudres, and has cut back since to 10-15% … if at all …

[Ramon_C]

… and WHAT did they preach?
How many wines and vintages have you tasted by Albert Dervieux-Thaize and Marius Gentaz-Dervieux?

Were they all fantastic?
(imho not …)

Not many. Not going to provide the count just for your sake. Not all fantastic.

It sounds to me that you think René Rostaing should have made a lot better than he did in your opinion.
I wonder how many producers you can name that you think were better than Rostaing over the last 40 years … and were still working after 2000 …
?

I can name a few, but not as much as the unlimited supply of soapboxes that you obviously hoard so that you can stand on one with every thread you participate in.

[Ramon_C]

René once told me that his uncle Marcel G-D was a fantastic wine-grower (a genius in the vineyards), but only a mean wine-maker (in the cellar) … he more or less let everything go … which sometimes turned out fine, and sometimes … well, less good …

Sounds like the disparaging remarks of the younger generation in the Langhe in the 80s and 90s about their fathers, as they started to use new barriques – as Rostaing did in the same period.

I think Rostaing may in the minority in his view of Gentaz.

• Rostaing is truly unique in ways beyond Gentaz can only hope for, in particular his ingenious use of osterizers during fermentation.

[Jeremy_Holmes]

Had a bottle of '11 Ampodium during the week. Thought it was a delicious, mid-weight CR with plenty of spice and lovely balance.

[John_Morris]

That’s good to here! Thanks, Jeremy.

[Gerhard_P]

• Rostaing is truly unique in ways beyond Gentaz can only hope for, in particular his ingenious use of osterizers during fermentation.

Biases seem to prohibit a serious discussion more and more …

[Arv_R]

I seem to remember reading in JLL’s various books on the Rhone, that Rostaing is controversial and provokes arguments even there too.

In Japan, they might say he disturbs the wa

[Gerhard_P]

I seem to remember reading in JLL’s various books on the Rhone, that Rostaing is controversial and provokes arguments even there too.

In Japan, they might say he disturbs the wa

Nothing wrong with being controversial - that´s the sign of a strong character … but one should stay objective and not agressive and offensive from behind … (nothing against you, Arv R).
Obviously some guys cannot accept different opinions … or deeper experience on a certain matter …
I´ve tasted close to 35 vintages of Rostaing - and mostly all 3-4 cuvées, having most still in my cellar … so I know what I´m talking about.

Not all vintages and wines by Rostaing are great, but that´s also true for almost all other producers …
I´m still curious which Cote Rotie producers are better than Rostaing … constantly over the last 40 years …

[John_S]

I am not looking to join a fight. But asking for other producers who have been making CR for 40 years in kindof silly. Many small independent producers that we know today made no or very little own branded CR prior to the 80s or 90s. Guigal used to buy up most of that fruit to go into his more generic CR bottlings. With that said, yes I much prefer the La Las to Rostaing. Yes they are more expensive. I get the Gerhard really likes Rostaing and others don’t nearly as much. I am in that camp. In fact I prefer Ogier to Rostaing but certainly that is not a popular view either as Ogier is on the more modern side. I find Jamet generally better than either of those for my palate. There simply are not a huge swath of older CR producers out there to compare.

I have never found the Rostaing wines flawed in any way which is objective. Subjectively they are simply wines I don’t buy as I prefer other producers. But I try them when offered and they are good wines just not my preferred style or expression of CR. And yeah not all Gentaz wines were great. Those have become mythic, I have none left, but loved the 1988 and seem to recall the 85 was quite fine as well. Never really had a great bottle of the 1991 which was always surprising given the vintage.

[John_Morris]

Obviously some guys cannot accept different opinions … or deeper experience on a certain matter …

He said modestly.

I´m still curious which Cote Rotie producers are better than Rostaing … constantly over the last 40 years …

As you know, and as the other John said, this is a silly and tendentious question since so many smaller producers have retired over that period. I will say that I’ve had many Guigal B&Bs over that span that were far more interesting to me than Rostaing’s basic bottling.

[Greg_K]

Nothing wrong with being controversial - that´s the sign of a strong character …

Or of an asshole. YMMV

[Mike_Grammer]

2001 is not my fav. vintage in Cote-Rotie … quite rustic from the start, even sauvage … most are now milder but lacking sweetness … even Jamet is a bit mean …
Rostaing’s Cote blonde and La Landonne are clearly a step or two above the regular CR (now Ampodium),

Indeed, and one of two reference points for Rostaing from memory. From 2012 in Atlanta, a 2001 La La which I was able to snap off a shelf in Calgary for about USD $85 a year or two earlier:

"2001 Rene Rostaing Cote Rotie La Landonne

True cote-rotie nose, full of roast meats, dark fruit and rosemary. For me, chickoree and espresso scents too. However, le gout suggests that this might need 2-3 years, very elegant with berry and damson plum, a touch of crispy bacon and delectable roasted herbs, thyme in particular, but still a bit rough with tannins. It does smooth out a bit with time in the glass. interestingly, my first aerating taste earlier in the afternoon (opened but capped) might have been the best today. A very good wine."


A 1999 regular cuvee Cote Rotie tasted in 2014 was lovely.

Maluhia,

Mike

[Gerhard_P]

Obviously some guys cannot accept different opinions … or deeper experience on a certain matter …

He said modestly.

I´m still curious which Cote Rotie producers are better than Rostaing … constantly over the last 40 years …

As you know, and as the other John said, this is a silly and tendentious question since so many smaller producers have retired over that period. I will say that I’ve had many Guigal B&Bs over that span that were far more interesting to me than Rostaing’s basic bottling.

I agree that Guigals B&B have been good to fine before 1995, e.g. 1982, 1983, 1985, 1988, 1990, 1991 were very enjoyable and interesting.
However since introduction of the Chateau D´Ampuis cuvee in 1995 which is made from the 6 (now 7) remaining own vineyards the B&B has lost a lot of intensity and depth …

A 1999 regular cuvee Cote Rotie tasted in 2014 was lovely.

Maluhia,

Mike

Rostaings 1999s are still lovely … ALL …
the Cote blonde is to die for …!
(sadly down to one bottle)

[Ramon_C]

Nothing wrong with being controversial - that´s the sign of a strong character …

Or of an *sshole. YMMV

+++++1

[Ramon_C]

I am not looking to join a fight. … In fact I prefer Ogier to Rostaing but certainly that is not a popular view either as Ogier is on the more modern side. I find Jamet generally better than either of those for my palate.

Agree with your assessment and with your caveat that nobody here’s looking for a fight, excepting those that are obviously less-than-modest, the always confrontational *$$wipe who challenges those with differing opinions, while metaphorically sitting on a high horse or standing on a soapbox, and whose diatribes have become tiresome.

Just 2 weeks ago, we had a 1999 Ogier CR and a 2001 Ogier Les Embruns that were, imho, very good and made forgettable the already unmemorable same vintages Rostaing that I’ve had before, in addition to the early 90s that I’ve had. I’m not into Rostaing and get it that Rostaing may be liked by some here, I don’t fault them for it, nor do I challenge their scope experiences with the subjects.

Btw, agree 150% that , in general, Jamet is in another stratosphere that’s above either Ogier or Rostaing.

[Matt_Mauldin]

I don’t think anything has happened on this thread to warrant anyone being called an *sshole. JM2C.

[Greg_K]

I don’t think anything has happened on this thread to warrant anyone being called an *sshole. JM2C.

For the record, that reference was mine, and it was not to anyone on this thread, but rather to the point that a controversial person must be a strong character.

[Matt_Mauldin]

I don’t think anything has happened on this thread to warrant anyone being called an *sshole. JM2C.

For the record, that reference was mine, and it was not to anyone on this thread, but rather to the point that a controversial person must be a strong character.

Point taken, and with an apology. Looking back over - I misinterpreted your comment and subsequently the comment on your comment.

[Greg_K]

I don’t think anything has happened on this thread to warrant anyone being called an *sshole. JM2C.

For the record, that reference was mine, and it was not to anyone on this thread, but rather to the point that a controversial person must be a strong character.

Point taken, and with an apology. Looking back over - I misinterpreted your comment and subsequently the comment on your comment.

No worries, and no apologies necessary.

[Gerhard_P]

For the record, that reference was mine, and it was not to anyone on this thread, but rather to the point that a controversial person must be a strong character.

Point taken, and with an apology. Looking back over - I misinterpreted your comment and subsequently the comment on your comment.

No worries, and no apologies necessary.

I´m not so sure … if it was not anyone on this thread I strongly hope it was not against René Rostaing (whom I called a strong character) …
he is a total gentleman, a real noble person and extremely nice and friendly guy …

However, I´m more and more confused what this forum is actually for … I though for sharing informations about wine, giving comments and for discussions … but it seems that only postings like “great”, “agree with”, +1 etc. are welcome … different opinions or additional infos about producers who seem to be not the darlings of the forum quickly get pejorative comments …

However, I heavily agree with naming Ogier as a top producer, and my shortlist of the 4-5 best would be (in any sequence):
Guigal, Jamet, Rostaing, Ogier … and …?
5th?
Levet? Possibly.

So which of the following producers would you name to be better than Rostaing? (not based on a single wine but for the results of many vintages …):

Jasmin, Barge, Burgaud, Gerin, Clusel-Roch, Champet, Duclaux, Bernard, Bonnefond, Stephan, Gerard, Gangloff, Pichon, Monteillet, Gaillard, Lafoy&Gasse, Cuilleron, Vernay, Villard … or better Chapoutier, Delas, Vidal-Fleury … ?
Any more?