TN: Produttori del Barbaresco vertical 2016-1970

[john_stimson]

Great tasting, Otto. I may have missed it, but could you tell us how the bottles were prepped for the tasting, in other words how much air they got? (I’m also wondering, ike Matt, if any of the bottles that underwhelmed showed signs of waking up later on.)

I mentioned the decanting times for every wine tasted…

I carefully decanted the wines off the deposit, left to breathe in a decanter for some time, washed the bottles clean, then returned the wines back into the bottles when they were next in line for pouring.

1979 and 1977 woke up during the decanting and my tasting notes are taken when they were more or less showing their best. 1976 and 1971 were just dead.

Thanks, Otto. I just wanted to look like an idiot.
(Actually, I read your post, then went back at a later time to respond without re-reading, and forgot about the decanting times…)

[David_Bu3ker]

The ideal would be if producers could just switch to DIAM. These wines seem to age similarly to wines under a cork, but without the risk of TCA.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

The ideal would be if producers could just switch to DIAM. These wines seem to age similarly to wines under a cork, but without the risk of TCA.

+1

We still have the occasional weird bottle but it’s 1 in 1000(or less).

[Mattstolz]

Thanks all for the positive comments!

I’m wondering if you held on to any of the older bottles that you noted felt tired? I’ve had produttori that felt like that even at the 4 hour mark that eventually came around to be beautiful wines. Some even from the same vintages you noted

I was expecting this kind of comment to appear.

Yes, I did and I’m very sure they were oxidized, as I am starting to have quite a bit of experience with older Nebbiolo. Although every now and then some seemingly dead wines can manage to surprise, you start to get a quite good hunch when a wine is just holding back and when it’s just lifeless and dead.

Except for that 1970 which was just a-singin’ from popping the cork, all the 1970’s wines seemed completely dead and dull at first. However, I wasn’t taken aback, because I know older Nebbiolo can take some time to come around, so I happily decanted all of them.

Of those wines, 1979 and 1977 actually came back to life to some degree, turning out to be quite enjoyable wines with still a bit of enjoyment left in them. However, even they slowly fell apart over the evening and when I re-tasted those bottles that still had some wine in them after having cleaned up the tasting venue, all the vintages 1979-1971 were going downhill fast. 1976 and 1971 were completely dead from the get-go and never got any better during the evening.

you certainly have had a chance to develop that feeling for older nebbs more thoroughly than I would. I asked mostly because I figured you had retested them several times throughout the night, and was not disappointed!

the 1982 is my current Eleanor of Produttori. I have always heard such good things, but of the ones I’ve had, they have all either been corked, poorly stored, or poorly shipped. its starting to get very frustrating! haha

[Todd_Tucker]

Thanks for the great write up Otto.

These are some pretty terrific wines.

I have a hard time thinking of another red wine producer in the world who consistently makes a better combination of value and age worthy outstanding wine than PdB.

Chris, to agree with Otto, I would not choose to seek out a '75 Piedmont wine. Pretty tough vintage. It is testament to the PdB that the 77 at least was interesting to drink.

The 79’s Cru’s can be Ok but are getting tired. I think most of the PdB 74s are on the downslope with occasional surprising bottles (the normal in '74 can be quite good especially in large format still. The '67 normale is still going strong and most of the Cru bottlings are showing quite well. The '67 Rabaja can be stellar. 70, 71 can be good but I have had a lot of hit and miss. The '78s are the best of the decade at this point (and likely always were), and likely their best wines until '89. The Cru bottlings from '78 can still be pretty young if you get well stored bottles.

Thanks again for the great write up and insight.

Cheers

[Otto_Forsberg]

the 1982 is my current Eleanor of Produttori. I have always heard such good things, but of the ones I’ve had, they have all either been corked, poorly stored, or poorly shipped. its starting to get very frustrating! haha

Oof, I can believe. Well, keep on digging! If you manage to hit a bottle that is in a pristine condition, it’ll really be something - everybody was suddenly going crazy in the tasting when the complexity seemed to really kick into next gear once they got to taste the wine after the 1996 and the post-millennium bottles.

Thanks for the great write up Otto.

The 79’s Cru’s can be Ok but are getting tired. I think most of the PdB 74s are on the downslope with occasional surprising bottles (the normal in '74 can be quite good especially in large format still. The '67 normale is still going strong and most of the Cru bottlings are showing quite well. The '67 Rabaja can be stellar. 70, 71 can be good but I have had a lot of hit and miss. The '78s are the best of the decade at this point (and likely always were), and likely their best wines until '89. The Cru bottlings from '78 can still be pretty young if you get well stored bottles.

Thanks again for the great write up and insight.

Cheers

Haven’t had many older Riservas, but still agree with your views on the vintages. Furthermore, they also had a streak of great vintages from '83 to '86 (well, not counting the lousy '84 there in the middle). And like I said earlier, the '64 and '61 are simply extraordinary.

[Joe_Chanley]

thanks for the look otto.

has anyone taking an early peek at 2017 which is now on the shelves?

[Claus_Jeppesen]

Hi Otto,

Thanks for all the work writing. I have mixed feelings about your assessment for the 2016. I may not be around to see this wine peak in several decades!

Anyway, do you have any experience with the 1975 normale? I am considering it as a birth year present, but fear it may be like the 1976. For that matter, do you think any 1975 Barolo or Barbaresco would still show well given the vintage?

Thanks.

Piedmont: nogo
Toscany: many great options

[Otto_Forsberg]

Piedmont: nogo
Toscany: many great options

This. Have had multiple great Tuscan reds. Definitely a much better vintage there.

[wspohn]

Otto - I should ask if you’ve tasted the 1999 lately. I have a case of mags and am wondering how they are doing.

[Mattstolz]

Hi Otto,

Thanks for all the work writing. I have mixed feelings about your assessment for the 2016. I may not be around to see this wine peak in several decades!

Anyway, do you have any experience with the 1975 normale? I am considering it as a birth year present, but fear it may be like the 1976. For that matter, do you think any 1975 Barolo or Barbaresco would still show well given the vintage?

Thanks.

Piedmont: nogo
Toscany: many great options

this is so interesting. literally everything I have read about 2016 in Piedmont has been extremely positive, including Otto’s review in the OP. Why no go for 2016 Piedmont? or are you referring to 1975?

[Otto_Forsberg]

Otto - I should ask if you’ve tasted the 1999 lately. I have a case of mags and am wondering how they are doing.

Alas, I have not. Based on the general style of Produttori + magnum size, I think the bottles are in no hurry whatsoever. However, let us know how they’re doing if you decide on poppin’ one open.

this is so interesting. literally everything I have read about 2016 in Piedmont has been extremely positive, including Otto’s review in the OP. Why no go for 2016 Piedmont? or are you referring to 1975?

I understood that “birth year present” means a wine from a birth year. If that is the case, I doubt 2016 fits the bill, no matter how great the wine is.

But it is definitely a vintage worth going deep on, if one is planning on filling their own cellars with good Nebbiolo.

[R_Frankel]

Fascinating report Otto thanks for sharing the results. Of the disappointments, I’m more saddened and surprised by the young failures. My experience with older Italian bottles from auction/retail is similar. For reasons discussed in many threads here, pre-mid-90s Italian wines were just not stored well compared to Bordeaux, Burgundy, etc. Bummer for those of us poking around auctions for these bottles.

[Claus_Jeppesen]

Hi Otto,

Thanks for all the work writing. I have mixed feelings about your assessment for the 2016. I may not be around to see this wine peak in several decades!

Anyway, do you have any experience with the 1975 normale? I am considering it as a birth year present, but fear it may be like the 1976. For that matter, do you think any 1975 Barolo or Barbaresco would still show well given the vintage?

Thanks.

Piedmont: nogo
Toscany: many great options

this is so interesting. literally everything I have read about 2016 in Piedmont has been extremely positive, including Otto’s review in the OP. Why no go for 2016 Piedmont? or are you referring to 1975?

Sorry for the confusion
1975 is poor in Piedmont but (still!) so great in Tuscany. (Poggione, Montevertine, Castell’in Villa…)