Having met Kevin before, I know that he is very appreciative of generosity. Separately, he also wishes for everyone to enjoy the best about wine, no matter who is being generous. No dilemma at all.
Spectrum should be grateful for his honest, respectful, constructive feedback.
Personally I didn’t take your post as a knock on Spectrum, just a general wail on how even high end restaurants can be careless with their glassware.
The news on the possible Kurniawan connection is, of course, another matter entirely.
But the glasses are more egregious Jay. Ruining whatever’s in the bottles they served.
Wasn’t Rudy’s thing to use the genuine for tastings…and the other stuff for sale?
Maybe the soap was part of the plan, to deflect the focus from the authenticity of the wine to the soap aromas. Not a bad plan, actually…if you want to crerate a diversion. ![[training.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/d/d0f39866e5714408d7091b0bd2d7bb764d7bb973.gif "[training.gif]"){kind=small}
What I’m saying is that if you’re worried that the thread reflects poorly on Spectrum when that wasn’t your intent you can alter that by altering the thread title and your OP to make it clear that the restaurant was at fault in your eyes. I’m not sure why the thread should be deleted but that’s between you and Todd.
Yes, but that was the restaurants fault, not Spectrum’s.
I appreciate the kind words. I was lucky enough to start my passion at relatively young age. As I have mentioned before, some of my fellow DCWINOS, Chris Bublitz, Randall Mcfarlane, Tom Wheltle and other old timers, not that they are old, generously shared some great wines. I was also fortunate to be able to afford to experience some of the most sought after wines. I am absolutely certain that the issue was the glasses and the wines were correct. There is nothing to gain but so much to lose by inviting some of the biggest collectors in NYC and the fake wines. Although a stellar line up, it was not more than $25,000 worth of the wines. The wines were clearly what they should have been.
While I accept that the glasses were the restaurant’s fault given that issue how can you possibly vouch for the wines being what they should have been? Surely you’d have no idea either way?
This is the pattern used by Hardy Rodenstock IMO, based on how I read the things in the public record. But I’m not aware of enough evidence about Rudy K and selling fake wines to know one way or the other. Did he have a pattern of offering wines for tasting by potential buyers? I don’t know. It does seem he opened a lot of bottles for “the heavy lumber guys”, and maybe they were potential customers, or maybe not.
Rudy seemed to me, back in the early days, to be a newbie wine geek who had lots of money from Daddy, and went out-of-control in buying rare high-end wine. Spent many millions at auctions, and also seems to have been buying from private dealers (and/or other sources) both known and unknown. So it is probable he was duped into buying some fake wines, back when he was buying everything in sight.
As for Rudy selling fakes, it would be possible to guess that he felt cheated by the fakes he bought, and just decided to “pass it on” via auction house channels. It would also be possible to guess he wanted to sell some wines, but was not aware that they were fake. This is his claim about the Ponsot CSD in the LA Times piece that Bob Fleming linked above.
Things have been written about Rodenstock being actively involved in the production of fakes. I have read nothing like that about Rudy K.
Jay,
With tainted glass, it gives sharp metallic note but It doesn’t completely mask the material. In the original program, the 90 Trimbach Clos Ste Hune was included. The bottle was slightly corked but it clearly displayed the great material including minerality and precision. I didn’t taste the wine but just smelling was enough. The 90 La Tache, I am certain that it was a real McCoy, beautiful material, intense and youthful. The best way for me to describe how the taint expresses to me is like having an incredible intense yet subtle dish with a few drops of tobasco, ie very sharp and completely bothersome but I can still taste the brilliance. The 90 RC if someone replaced with the 90 DRC Richebourg, I would have not been able to tell them apart. As I stated before, there was a no reason for Spectrum to serve fake wines.
Lewis,
You are making a great point. I also pointed this out to some folks in the past. Was he just passing the fakes or at certain point start creating his own cuvees? This is one extremely important and interesting point for me.
He’s said as much, in this LA Times piece. $75,000 a case? He's buying
There are serious pitfalls to buying old wine, Kurniawan says. Counterfeit wines and wines damaged during shipment or poor storage are common. Only after he’d tasted hundreds of bottles did Kurniawan learn how to spot the fakes, he says. He studies the corks for signs of tampering, knows the telling details of the labels for all of the top wines, and can spot bottle markings that don’t match that bottle’s label.
Though I haven’t followed “Rudy’s” (I read somewhere, I think, that isn’t even his real name) escapades very carefully…or with that much interest, the guy was “involved” in whatever capacity with way too much fake stuff to think he was a naive victim. And, that some of the well known names (particularly in the Burgundy world) who used to champion him, his wines, his generosity and “modesty”) have been silent since they were doing all that vouching, makes me think that they don’t think of him as a “victim”. I’d guess they feel pretty silly themselves, which I’d bet is why they’ve all clammed up.
The whole thing is a mess, of course. I don’t really believe anything written or said about the whole affair, particularly from such articles.
And, lots of “credible” people were duped on the wines…so, I can’t imagine anyone can be sure of anything with them. Of course, I have no idea whether these wines at this “auction dinner” are part of those at issue. The statements from the auction house make it even muddier. I assume they did the dinner to get people posting and talking…but it doesn’t sound like it worked the way they’d hoped. Among other things, they got a restaurant that drew attention to the wrong thing: the soapy glasses…that drew attention to the whole family of issues…and once again made people look silly.
I already stated at least a couple of times that the wines were correct. I actually took a bottle of the 92 Leflaive Chevalier Montrachet to share with others. Eddie brought the 90 Richebourg and the 90 Chave Cuvee Cuvée Cathelin which were showing magnificently. Also Bruce added a beautiful bottle of the 90 Krug Mesnil. Furthermore Spectrum had had so much to lose and very little to gain by serving the fake wines.
Kevin, with all due respect, and I think you probably know what you’re doing, but more “credible” people than you got duped by all the attention, lavish entertaining, settings, etc. Luckily, you had soapy glasses to keep you tethered to the firmament. That you think the wines were “correct”, unfortunately, doesn’t mean much, except to you. I think that’s the point. Like the others, the authenticators are part of the plan…and were with all the “experts” when Rudy was in his heyday. Again, I don’t know that any of these wines were “Rudy’s” (And, acc. to Don Cornwell, “Rudy” wasn’t his real name.)
Beyond that…I don’t know much…
Are there any pics available of the bottles and labels of the wines served at this dinner?
Kevin:
I also never thought that your comment about soapy wine glasses impuned Spectrum in any way. It was clearly a restaurant issue. I think most people took it that way. On the other hand, Spectrum has a very real, and completely unrelated, issue on its hands regarding the source of many of the beautiful wines in its beautiful catalog. All of that has been documented by Don in another thread. But in my opinion, you never called the wines fake or intimated otherwise, just noted a detergent contamination in the glasses. We’ve all experienced that in different settings and I think you were merely pointing out the shame of pouring such nice wines into such tainted stemware.
I think the real issue is who consigned the majority of rare burgs to Spectrum (seems like Rudy)? Were they fakes (seems as if at least some were certainly questionable)? How did Spectrum come across them? How did Spectrum not do the basic of research into the wines, which would clearly have uncovered problems, or at least questions?
Best,
Barry
Stuart,
Unless you tasted the wines with “credible” people I am not so sure what make them more credible than I. I have proven in the past that my palate is quite capable. You make a good point of how some got duped but if you were to fake, would you serve the 90s? I have tasted my share of older wines and the rare wines and I am certain that the wines were correct.
Brian,
Let’s do the math.
1990 taittinger comtes de champagne - $200 seems a bit advanced I noted but hard to fake champagne.
1990 Clos Ste Hune - $400 TCA tainted but correct bottle
1990 La Tache – $4500
1990 Romanee Conti - $12,500
1990 La Las - $700 per bottle and La Mouline and La Landonne were drinking beautifully
1990 Montrose - $400 to me too much brett but definitely the 90 Montrose
1990 Margaux $1000
1890 D’Oliveiras Madeira Verdelho $400? Correct
What would Spectrum gain by serving fake wines in the event to promote the auction? Is $17K worth all the risk? I haven’t checked their % commission but at 20%, it is a solid case of RC or an imperial of the 99 Romanee Conti. I have drank, six to eight dinners, my fair share of older wines and if anyone wishes to fake, it is a lot easier with the ones from the early 60s or even earlier.
Again, I don’t know that any of these wines were “Rudy’s” (And, acc. to Don Cornwell, “Rudy” wasn’t his real name.)
Stuart…I am going to make a joke about your message ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
and hope you do not mind !!.
Please tell us what is your definition of a real name ?
In Indonesia, an ethic Chinee person ( with a Chinese name ) often needs to have ( or to adopt ) an Indonesian name ( such as Kurniawan ) to have more legal rights. Rudys names have been dealt with by posts in the other Board sometimes ago.
I know this as a fact as many of my Chinese friends who live in Indonesia has alias ( beside thier ethic Chinese names ).
Kevin,
I’m not saying fake wines necessarily were served at the meal (although, to be fair to you, I can understand how my first post in this thread (in which I was (half) joking) could lead you to believe otherwise – please also note my inclusion of the word “maybe” in that post – that word was not used without thought or intention). I’m being sincere with you here, and appreciate that you are also being sincere with me, and for that I thank you.
All that said, I do think it would be interesting to conduct a visual comparison of the bottles served at the subject meal versus the wines that are to be auctioned on Wed… Don’t you think such a comparison would be interesting, especially in light of the investigative work done by Mr. Cornwell?
So, I politely inquire again: are there any pics available of the bottles and labels of the wines served at this subject meal?