Traditional Hermitage recomendations

[A_So]

@Gerhard P.

@A. So

I’m with Alfert. Chapoutier sucks. Could happily live the rest of my life without them.

Chave though… they taste more like Chave to me than Hermitage. Whatever that means.

I guess you don´t apprechiate Hermitage at all … good if you can live without Chapoutier … it is obvious that you don´t like it - but “sucks” means that they are making crap - which is a ridiculous and biased WRONG statement!

Today I learned appreciation of Hermitage begins with overextraction and absurd oak use.

I do admit I was wrong when I said Chapoutier sucks. I was being too charitable.

[Gerhard_P]

@StevenB

@A. So

I’m with Alfert. Chapoutier sucks. Could happily live the rest of my life without them.

Disagree. The single vineyard Hermitages are too expensive and not good enough for their price. But I think the Hermitage La Sizeranne is a wonderful Hermitage that ages extremely well and is very typical for Hermitage if it is drunk properly aged (which means 15 or more years). And its price is great at around 40 Euros.

+1

We had 89/90/91 Sizeranne side by side (and may repeat the etude in a few months) … and it was great drinking, with the 90 the winner, but 91 not far behind …
1990 Pavillon is a great wine, and the 1992 extremely elegant and fine for the vintage. 1999 still young.

[StevenB]

@A. So

Today I learned appreciation of Hermitage begins with overextraction and absurd oak use.

I do admit I was wrong when I said Chapoutier sucks. I was being too charitable.

Over-Extraction and “absurd oak use” in Chapoutier’s Hermitages? Do you say this because the wines received 100 points by Robert Parker several times or because you actually drank the wines?

[A_So]

@StevenB

@A. So

Today I learned appreciation of Hermitage begins with overextraction and absurd oak use.

I do admit I was wrong when I said Chapoutier sucks. I was being too charitable.

Over-Extraction and “absurd oak use” in Chapoutier’s Hermitages? Do you say this because the wines received 100 points by Robert Parker several times or because you actually drank the wines?

I spat them back out. Not sure if that counts.

[Gerhard_P]

@A. So

…
Today I learned appreciation of Hermitage begins with overextraction and absurd oak use.

I do admit I was wrong when I said Chapoutier sucks. I was being too charitable.

I recommend to switch to Beaujolais … - hardly overextracted …

[NED_VALOIS]

Swine !

[Jeff_Leve]

@CJ Beazley

@Jeff Leve

@NED VALOIS

For Hermitage;
Belle
Bernard Faurie
Chapoutier
Jean Louis Chave
Yann Chave
du Colombier
Delas Feres
Ferraton
Guigal Ex Voto
Jaboulet La Chapelle
Nicolas Perrin
Remizieres
Marc Sorrel
Tardieu Laurent
Vallouit

Ned… I have to say, I really like your list of Hermitage producers, even if they are not all traditional. In fact, looking at the page for Hermitage on my website, I think it is safe to say I could not agree more!!! Learn about Hermitage Rhone Wine Complete Guide Best Wines Vineyards

I see what you did there

Thanks for understanding what took place here!

[Guillaume_Deschamps]

I’d have a hard time answering this question right now. Hermitage is a desert. Now if we’re talking pre-1995 that’s a different story.

[Jay_Miller]

@Keith Levenberg

@A. So

I’m with Alfert. Chapoutier sucks. Could happily live the rest of my life without them.

+1

+2

[Robert.A.Jr]

@Jay Miller

@Keith Levenberg

@A. So

I’m with Alfert. Chapoutier sucks. Could happily live the rest of my life without them.

+1

+2

You are all foolish, biased and dead WRONG!

[Ian_Sutton]

Funny, I thought the argument about great or rubbish would have revolved around Jaboulet with their wobble in the late 1990s

[Keith_Levenberg]

@Guillaume Deschamps

I’d have a hard time answering this question right now. Hermitage is a desert. Now if we’re talking pre-1995 that’s a different story.

yep… particularly fond of the old glories of a former Neal Rosenthal producer, since bought by Chapoutier.

[NED_VALOIS]

@Andrew L.

Mine. You can remove it yourself if you like.

Or we can get this woman to do it:

FYI ; Eating nuts linked to lower risk of colon cancer !!!

[Dav1dZ]

@Keith Levenberg

@Guillaume Deschamps

I’d have a hard time answering this question right now. Hermitage is a desert. Now if we’re talking pre-1995 that’s a different story.

yep… particularly fond of the old glories of a former Neal Rosenthal producer, since bought by Chapoutier.

To be fair, Ferraton made plenty of shitty wines too, but that is part of the charm. They were old school as hell.

[Alan_Rath]

@NoahR

For anyone who knows Marc Sorrel: how do the base Hermotages compare to Greal and Vignon?

Was there recently, and based on tasting 14 and 15 samples, I’d say that the “classic” base Hermitage measures up pretty well against the Greal (didn’t dry the Vignon, have never seen that). I think I actually liked the 14 “classic” a little better than Greal, and the 15 Greal is so massive and deep it will take many years to develop.

[M.Twelftree]

Late to the party on this one
Surprised not to see Gilles Robin get a mention, a Neg bottling for 40-year-old vines in Bessards, nailed and really enjoy the 2009 the other night… 2010 resting in the cellar.
Lots of Chave love here, fell asleep multiple times in this recent interview of the Chave dude http://illdrinktothatpod.com/post/142993802700/episode-352-tuesday-april-19-2016-jean-louis
I have mixed feelings over many vintages but consistently find the Domaine St Joseph thrilling, then again I prefer Cote Rotie and Cornas over Hermitage, sadly too few a people owning to few a vines on the great hill, therefore making the selection not very diverse. I love seeking out the little guys and seeing what they can do… the thrill of the chase… the thrill of wine.
MT

[StevenB]

I’m still a little puzzled by the flat-out rejection of Chapoutier’s Hermitages. As said, I find the single vineyard “selections parcellaires” Hermitages too expensive for what they are and never had one that really excited me. But maybe those who say Chapoutier “sucks” can elaborate on why they think the Hermitage La Sizeranne from Chapoutier is so bad. I’ve had it from several vintages from the early to late 90s, but 1999 is the last vintage I’ve drank. As said, in my view, the Sizeranne is a really typical Hermitage, more muscular than Côte Rotie and less sauvage than Cornas, with great balance and the sort of “noble” appearance that I expect from a Hermitage. The Sizeranne is aged in 30% new oak (Chave uses 10-20% new oak) and I never found it particularly oaky and not particularly heavily extracted either. It’s Syrah after all, not Poulsard. Obviously, I would always prefer the Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage over the Chapoutier La Sizeranne (and in any case also over the selections parcellaires), but the Chave is also four times more expensive. And if you ask me whether I’d rather buy the Chapoutier Sizeranne or the JL Chave Selection Hermitage “Farconnet”, I’d always go for Chapoutier. The same is true for the Chapoutier Chante Alouette White Hermitage in comparison to the JL Chave Selection Hermitage Blanc “Blanche”. Everyone has his/her own taste, but it’s hard for me to follow the “oaky, heavily extracted” argument for the Chapoutier La Sizeranne. I can follow it for the selections parcellaires, but not for the La Sizeranne.

[Guillaume_Deschamps]

@StevenB

But maybe those who say Chapoutier “sucks” can elaborate on why they think the Hermitage La Sizeranne from Chapoutier is so bad. I’ve had it from several vintages from the early to late 90s, but 1999 is the last vintage I’ve drank.

That was the golden era. I thought we were talking about now (this comment is not limited to Chapoutier). Actually the old vintages of Chapoutier (like 1995 or 1999) are cheaper than the recent vintages (e.g. 2009 or 2010).

[Andrew_L]

@StevenB

if you ask me whether I’d rather buy the Chapoutier Sizeranne or the JL Chave Selection Hermitage “Farconnet”, I’d always go for Chapoutier. The same is true for the Chapoutier Chante Alouette White Hermitage in comparison to the JL Chave Selection Hermitage Blanc “Blanche”.

Well, that’s not saying much. I think the Chave negociant wines are extremely mediocre and bear almost zero resemblance to the domaine wines.

[Gerhard_P]

@Andrew L.

@StevenB

if you ask me whether I’d rather buy the Chapoutier Sizeranne or the JL Chave Selection Hermitage “Farconnet”, I’d always go for Chapoutier. The same is true for the Chapoutier Chante Alouette White Hermitage in comparison to the JL Chave Selection Hermitage Blanc “Blanche”.

Well, that’s not saying much. I think the Chave negociant wines are extremely mediocre and bear almost zero resemblance to the domaine wines.

That´s true - but the same applies to most other real negociant wines (in Hermitage and elsewhere).

After all the bashings (and even bad insults) I would really be interested WHAT is here considered (by the so-called insiders ) as a good and recommended Hermitage - besides Chave - Chave - Chave … (and a bit of Sorrel) … and maybe Faurie …
so many negatives - and few positives - it definitely seems to be more a question of stylistic philosophy than of practical quality in the bottle …

… and I really had my fair share of fine/great Hermitages over the decades …

BTW: agree also with the statements about Sizeranne above …