Undervalued/underappreciated vintages

William_Kelley · July 28, 2021, 1:05pm

But nor are any of those châteaux in the northern Médoc…

Mark_Golodetz · July 28, 2021, 1:16pm

Now you’re just being picky.

Dennis_Borczon · July 28, 2021, 1:20pm

Napa/Sonoma cab from 1998-2000 was quite underrated.

1999 is a truly great vintage, good cool fruit, balanced, very ageworthy.

98 and 00 were considered bad but many wines aged into a cool vintage elegant wines and wines with more old school styling.

I have always loved the 1999 vintage, probably more so than any vintage since then except maybe 2013. Probably drank more of it as well. Down now to just a few Dunn and Togni left. I agree that the 98 and 00 vintages are better than the rep but also more hit or miss. I bought a good bit of them as they were priced right but rarely had a wow experience with one. The 2011s on the other hand is the vintage I wish I had bought more of when people were desperate to move it. Those I have tasted recently are turning into something really special to my taste.

+1

Andy_Sc · July 28, 2021, 1:28pm

Sure, but no Northern Medoc will reach the quality of those wines I’ve mentioned.

William_Kelley · July 28, 2021, 1:30pm

No, I’m looking at where the rain fell! 100mm in Saint-Julien vs 40mm in Margaux…

If I had meant that 2014 is better than 2015 in Margaux, Saint-Émilion, Graves and Sauternes, I would have written that.

The distance between e.g. Château Montrose and Smith-Haut-Lafitte is as far as the distance between Beaune and Mâcon, after all.

William_Kelley · July 28, 2021, 1:33pm

Nor are any of the wines you cited in any sense underrated

MChang · July 28, 2021, 1:47pm

I am starting to see 15 (very slowly) and 18 burgundy fall into that category as well. I’ve managed to source some 15 DRC for the same price or less than 17 now, which is shocking given the quantities of 17 and how cheap in 19-20, no idea why that is.

Robert.A.Jr · July 28, 2021, 1:51pm

The best 14s will never reach the level of the best 15s. There’s not remotely the same level of complexity.

Nevertheless, the 14 is certainly drinking well these days (especially right bank, left bank still needs time to soften), it’s a cool, clean and fresh vintage. And it will provide pleasure for a long time.

But I don’t think it’s that much underrated, lots of praise here and on other platforms and I think the critic ratings are quite spot on (Decanter with 4/5 for the left bank and 3.5/5 for the right bank; Parker rates it around 93/94 pts, WineSpectator 93, Enthusiast about 94/95).

I think the best 2014 northern Médocs, e.g. Montrose and Pichon Lalande (which were my two favorites, along with seemingly everyone else’s, at the Southwold tasting), are likely to surpass their 2015 counterparts in the fulness of time.

As for “underrated”, I took it to be a reference to market prices rather than scores per se.

Agree re prices and I also agree for Montrose 14 vs 15 and I tend to agree with Pichon 14 vs 15 (although the last comparison showed both neck on neck).

But, I wasn’t referencing to a winery by winery comparisons as there are indeed some superior 2014s vs their 2015 counterparts. My point was that the best 2015 will reach heights no 2014 will ever reach (no 2014 will ever match the quality and complexity level of the Margaux, Cheval, Yquem or Haut Brion… and I can safely say that having tasted all first growths and other big names (but not Petrus or Le Pin) in the bottle in both years). It’s not a question of preference, it is just a question of what mother nature allowed.

Disagreed, I barely bought any 15s. Now had you said 16, I might concur.

Not sure how you should be able to judge that, when you didn’t had a lot of 2015s.

Well, I’m certainly not expert like you, but I have tasted both vintages of these specific wines and prefer the 2014:

Figeac
Canon
Les Carmes Haut Brion
Sociando
Cantemerle
Lanessan
Cambon La Pelouse
Bourgneuf (2016 even better)

Haven’t tried the 15, but oh are these 14s killer:

Lalande
Montrose
Calon Segur
L’Eglise Clinet
Vieux Chateau Certan

Found 15 Ausone a bit much.

I’m sure I’ve had others, but these comes to mind. Again, nowhere near the representative examples of what William, and I guess you, have had, but I know my taste and my vintage profile preferences.

I should qualify, I’ve had full or multiple bottles of all of these wines and followed them over an evening. I do not go to mass tastings, and for me, put little stock in them. I think we all know bigger tends to show better then, but once you get it home, sometimes it ain’t the same.

William_Kelley · July 28, 2021, 1:51pm

Hmm surprising, but might reflect the fact that 2017 is being traded a lot right now.

But it is true that 2015 Burgundies, even more than 2009, fell victim to changing fashions, in the sense that people who at one stage didn’t buy e.g. 2007s because they were “not ripe enough” didn’t buy 2015s for fear that they might be “too ripe”.

Andy_Sc · July 28, 2021, 2:39pm

Agree with almost all names you mentioned (haven’t had Eglise Clinet, Lanessan, Bourgneuf, Cambon). Figac is an exception where I find the 2015 far superior. Re VCC: the 2015 is significantly ahead in terms of depth and a bit in terms of precision but still I prefer the 2014 clearly today, as the 2015 (like other right banks too), is just too bold and ripe and big for me (hell, I guessed it to be a Napa!). my hunch is that the VCC 14 will be ahead in this race at least for the next 25 years or forever if the 2015 dies before it will be able to shed its fat. I’m not looking for bigger either, to the contrary, and I’m not basing these judgements solely on trade tastings but many theme nights at home/friends places.

Robert.A.Jr · July 28, 2021, 2:45pm

Andy try that Lanessan. It’s smokin. And the last vintage before Bouard swooped in and marred it. Such a great value. I just grabbed another case. I swooned over the 2009 as well.

Greg_K · July 28, 2021, 7:08pm

I think 18 is very properly rated for a vintage where some producers made some, let’s say, unusually powerful wines.

I think 15 is becoming less rated on a relative basis with the dawning realization that getting sufficiently ripe Pinot doesn’t appear to be the main challenge going forward in burgundy. I do think there were a few producers who made slightly overripe 15s, but overall it’s a really good vintage (even if I think 16 is better).