UPDATE: RESOLVED! ANOTHER Mistaken Wine Theft Incident at the LCBO!

It seems more likely that he wanted you to leave the bag outside so he could steal whatever was in it (cell phone, ipad, whatever). When he didn’t find anything he just continued the conversation.

Quick update: just an FYI that after doing my own legal research and consulting briefly with a practicing lawyer, we have determined that if this idiot spoke to the staff then a legal situation called agency is established and the store is indeed liable.

The gist is that by instructing and/or allowing him to come after me either explicitly or implicitly, assuming we are talking about just another average joe like you or I and not an actual undercover security/policeman, the store staff did in fact essentially make him an actual legal representative of the LCBO i.e. they essentially deputized him to be their acting agent and representative in the matter.

The only thing that lets the LCBO completely off the hook is if this guy did indeed truly act as a lone wolf i.e. absolutely ZERO consultation with any LCBO employee within the store. If the videotape shows that there was zero contact between himself and anyone else other than me during the time that we were both in the store from our first encounter in the washroom area and the time I left the store to confront me then there is no legal standing for me to go after them because they cannot reasonably be held accountable for his actions having literally never talked to the guy.

Remember, he did go back to the store afterwards as I said but in that case it wouldn’t matter if he went up to them and said, “Hey, there was a potential thief in here but I checked him out and he was okay!” after the fact because you can’t establish agency afterwards. The key is that I must prove explicit or implicit agency, which now can only be proven on the videotape. I will speak to the manager again today and let him know that I have indeed consulted with a lawyer. More updates to come.

This is like a tv drama… Greys anatomy, LCBO style. :slight_smile:

My theory when I read the first few paragraphs was that he wanted you to leave your bag outside the washroom so he could put a stolen bottle in it, and then confront you outside and take it from you (claiming you were a thief, when he was in fact the thief and would make a show of going back in the store, but then not doing anything). Obviously that was not the case, but that’s where my mind went, and it seemed more likely than he was randomly hoping that you were actually a thief – the odds on that would be pretty low!

What would the store be liable for though? i.e. what are your damages here? I am asking because I genuinely do not know. If you are considering pursuing this, you may want to investigate what type of damages one might be entitled to in a situation such as yours. If they are nominal, then that gives one pause before deciding whether to proceed.

I, too, am confused about your legal theory. The store disavowed the guy. Do you think they were lying?

Half chinese half white girls with a soft English accent might be the hottest thing in the universe. :wink:

Another update but before I get to it, I will answer Chris: the store has NOT disavowed the guy yet. They can’t identify him yet, that’s not the same thing. In fact, disavowing him is the WORST thing they can do if the video shows him talking to an employee about me. That would prove they sent a stranger after me and opens them up to civil liability.

To answer Robert: I’m getting flashbacks every time I pass an LCBO store or another Asian person approaches me. My faith in humanity is shattered. The walls are closing in around me. Moral outrage, pain, suffering and infliction of mental stress or nervousness. Sure, those damages are nominal.

However, when the general public finds out via the news that the LCBO likes sending completely strangers outside the store to harass you and ask you what’s in your bag, I assure you that the damages will be considerable and substantial… against the LCBO. The answer to your question lies in the hands of a professional practicing lawyer. Don’t worry, I can ask one. The giant 9 L bottle of 1999 Yquem on display at Queen’s Quay would be a nice recompense for my pain and suffering. Barring that, an LCBO gift card would be nice.

New update: I spoke to a detective in the Theft/Robbery department of 32 division which services the Summerhill store. He confirms that police are there all the time thanks to the sheer volume of theft that goes on in that store. Yikes. Anyway, here’s the gist of things. It all turns on the identity of the individual in question:

If he was an undercover police officer:
• A legit undercover police officer is allowed to question you outside the store and detain you
• He was in his rights and doing his duty as an officer of the law to detain me and ask me even though he was honestly mistaken; no charges can be laid against him or LCBO staff, obviously

If he was an LCBO loss prevention officer:
• Loss prevention officers have some powers, but must call police and let them take over when actual charges are to be laid
• However, LCBO’s own rules say that they are not to approach anyone and certainly not off the premises
• Despite this, criminal charges cannot be pursued because no real criminal act has been taken
• Possibly some liability, but realistically the worst that can happen is he is reprimanded for what happened as he broke protocol and went very far off the reservation, so to speak

If he was a complete stranger:
• It is against the law to impersonate a police officer but this did not happen as he didn’t specifically identify himself as one
• Again, it is not against the law to impersonate an LCBO employee so no criminal charges can be laid against either the store employees or him even if they sent him after me
• Civil liability, however, is completely open which police detective and lawyer have now both confirmed

So the only thing this whole incident turns on is identifying the man in question – is he an LCBO employee, Toronto Police officer, or a complete stranger? Only in the last and final case do I have any chance of pursuing the LCBO in a civil lawsuit

You’ve wasted far too much energy already.

So a video of your guy talking to an LCBO employee is proof of what, exactly? He could be asking where the bathroom is, explaining why the Leaf’s should “blow it up” again, or arguing about 2004 burgundy.

My sympathies in your plight are waning with each successive post. You sound like Homer suing the Frying Dutchmen for running of of fish before he’d had “all he could eat”. Sadly, I don’t think Lionel Hutz will be taking your case.

Just my newbie two cents but it seems to me that one may encounter a weirdo or creep such as the one the OP described no matter where they go these days. So far nothing I have read gives any concrete indication that this person’s acts were in any way initiated, encouraged or condoned by the store; it sounds more like their concern is that a customer had the unfortunate encounter and they would like to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

Why any store would want to engage the services of someone they don’t know to act on their behalf instead of investigating a possible incident of theft/shoplifting themselves seems pretty stupid on their part. Sure, it could happen, but like I said, nothing that I’ve read so far makes it seem as though the store had anything to do with this.

This.

[highfive.gif]

Sorry gang, I think some of the lawyerly humour plus a few missing gaps is giving everyone here the wrong impression about my intentions. Let’s clear up some things here:

  • The store manager Reg is a good guy and in fact we have met before when I covered an event for the iYellow Wine club blog though he probably doesn’t recognize me on voice alone. Of course, we can all give him the benefit of the doubt and presume that he is looking to ensure that no repeat instance of this ever occurs again. We cannot paint and tar everyone with the same brush and I realize that. Just because his staff may be – note I said may be, things still have to be proven – morons, it doesn’t mean everyone there is. Remember, I am still on good terms with a goodly number of employees there.

  • The really valuable thing out of this whole experience is all the info I get to post in this thread in following the process from start to finish. Hopefully it gives us all some valuable insight into the LCBO and how some of it works. If so, it is worth it. OK, yeah, maybe talking to the police detective was overkill but if I hadn’t would we have learned that Loss Prevention is required to call the police? Or that Loss Prevention are not allowed to approach anyone in store or outside? I didn’t and wouldn’t have known without pursuing it a bit.

  • I can tell everyone posting here is a good person because you’re now starting to give the store the benefit of the doubt and assuming the guy confronting me was a “lone wolf” and somewhat chastising me now for pursuing so aggressively as if I am out to get the store a bit unjustly. Truthfully, I am starting to lean that way and remember, I did give Reg the benefit of the doubt and said this guy could’ve been lying through his teeth when he said the staff was aware of me. I’m a good person, too. :slight_smile:

  • Everything said two things still have yet to be determined: who was this guy and did he have any interaction with the store staff prior to talking to me. We should all really wait and see what the deelio is here from Reg’s point of view.

    \

  • Let’s flip the coin and let’s assume what we think is the best case scenario for the store: a “lone wolf” who had no interaction with the store and they had absolutely nothing to do with this. Nobody is responsible for anything, it’s over and done with, no harm done, no need to waste any more energy on this at all, right?

Except that there’s still a guy confronting LCBO customers outside your store playing supercop right on your doorstep. Even though you’re completely in the clear, I’m sure you can imagine that the store would be very concerned about this guy and what MIGHT happen in the future. So the thing is, like myself, they have somewhat of a vested interest in finding out what happened for their own safety and peace of mind. Those of you board members who work in retail, I think would agree you wouldn’t want this type of guy in your store.

Okay, apologies for getting a little overzealous in my rabid pursuit of truth, justice and the American way–er, Canadian Multicultural Peace, I mean. :stuck_out_tongue: since everything has been entirely one-sided in my favor in this thread so far, I will next update when Reg has given us the store’s side of the story and the results of their investigation to make things a bit more even. :slight_smile:

cc Kathy


(I agree though =D )

Lesson here is;
‘Go’ before you leave home. I didn’t even know LCBO’s had public washrooms.

oh she knows. Everytime I see it on TV or in person I tell her.

FWIW, this guy could be dangerous and your pursuit of him might prevent him from committing a future crime. Getting to know what the video shows and who he is might be the only way to do that. I don’t see much in a legal action against the LCBO but I don’t know Canadian law and would not pretend to.

This is all clear to me except one thing. How does “an Asian guy” get the name Bronstein?