West Sonoma Coast (Extreme coast/Fort Ross Seaview) Pinot Noirs

[Ben_M_a_n_d_l_e_r]

I think that Coastlands vineyard is a truly special site. The fruit from there is so distinctive - tiny berries, incredible concentration, wonderful acid profile. Williams Selyem (where I just worked harvest) gets some of the fruit (and it’s my personal favorite) but the Cobbs (who own the vineyard) also make their own I believe.

Hirsch is of course another special vineyard, as many above have noted.

I’ll add my name to the list of recommendations for Littorai and Peay, as well as Anderson Valley producers - my personal favorite up there is Baxter.

[Juliec]

All, thank you very much for the tips travel and vineyard wise, will be tasting through them. David, Picked up some more titans just in case. Also getting the Kutch McDougall ranch Wade.

[Scott_E1]

Thanks Rich, David, James, and Chris. I’ll definitely have to seek out Anderson Valley Pinot’s. I was trying to go to the occidental west of the west, didn’t work schedule wise. Hope they come to nyc again and I can catch it. Rich, didn’t mean to imply the West Sonoma Coast is fruit forward. Rather that of the West Sonoma Coast pinot’s, I like the fruit forward ones. I have a preference for the fruit forward Pinot’s (maybe for the 828 clone). Flowers style rather than the Failla/ Gary Farrell /Colene Clemens, etc. In the end, it may just be generalizations since there is so much variability within the region - given the different clones, vinification methods (barrels, yeasts, time in bottle, etc.), and sheer number of producers /vineyards, etc. and possibly bottle variability as well. but i’m a newbie. It helps to have these recommendations and tips since there is only so much time and resources to drink these different offerings. Can’t wait till I just know which are my favs.

Many will disagree, but I’m also of the opinion that SC Pinot can generally be a bit reserved and leaner than more inland regions. It is just a personal opinion for sure and could be more of a wine making style thing than a location thing. I actually stopped buying Littorai because their style seemed to fit my description of the more reserved/leaner profile. I plan on holding the few bottles from the 2013 and 2014 vintages for an extended period (15 years?) to see what happens. Two SC Pinots that we enjoy that are made in a style that is a little bolder, deeper and fruit-forward (IMHO of course) are made by Sojourn from the Ridgetop and Walala vineyards. Cheers!

[Bryan_Price]

I am a big fan of west sonoma coast wines. with that being said, i am finding that i enjoy what producers outside of the region are doing with the grapes. Primary example is hirsch, who i think producers OK pinot noir at best, but provides others (notably WS) with some of their best fruit. Only thing that i can point to is winemaking - which seems to be done in a very particular AFWE manner. I find most producers could use a little more body in the wines, rather than picking early so that the alc levels are below 13%.

Now - syrah from ft ross - that may be my sleeper pick for fav california wines!

I was told in the WS tasting room that unfortunately Hirsch will no longer supply grapes to WS (at least for the Sonoma Coast blend). Too bad - it was one of my favorite WS-produced vineyards.

[Juliec]

Just wanted to say thanks to this group for the recommendations!!! Now most of the purchases are cellaring. I was able to pick up some aged bottles during the holidays. (I’m about halfway through the list of recommendations… will try to add more during next year’s allocations and purchases.)

[DougS]

Enthusiastic +1 on the Raen wines. They’re special.

Anderson Valley wines almost always lack the finesse of the best from the true coastal sites in Sonoma, in my opinion. It’s a lot warmer up there, even at elevation. That might not be a bad thing for Julie, but it’s worth noting.

[P_Intag]

I just drank a bottle of the 2009 Fort Ross Fort Ross Vineyard Pinot and Russian River Valley has nothing on this opulent Pinot Noir. Very ripe, mouth-filling, and rich. 14.1% abv. Nothing like I was expecting. Still young and primary tasting. Picked it up on auction last year, so I don’t know what it was like in its youth.

[JonathanG]

Julie,
Another few to consider:
Cobb, Littorai, Maybach (Irmgard), Occidental, Senses, Furthermore, Withers, Rivers Marie, Failla, Freeman—all making fine expressions from the region.

Furthermore Navina’s is great, from vineyard west of Occidental . Give it a go, and as an added bonus the owners are just awesome people

The Freestone Pinot from Dutton Goldfield is nice also (although I dislike most of their other pinots)

[timmy_roos]

I would throw la rue into this mix. Excellent wine and excellent people

[Joe_Webb]

Enthusiastic +1 on the Raen wines. They’re special.

Anderson Valley wines almost always lack the finesse of the best from the true coastal sites in Sonoma, in my opinion. It’s a lot warmer up there, even at elevation. That might not be a bad thing for Julie, but it’s worth noting.

Average temperatures in AV are near 10* cooler than coastal Sonoma, more than that for RRV and Carneros. The biggest difference is the diurnal swings which are 50*+ here in Boonville during the growing season. We have warmer days and colder nights, just the type of stress I want on the vines. The real coastal sites often only have 10* diurnal shifts, never warm and never cold. AV is the only PN AVA in CA that gets frost every spring, its just a matter of how many.

The higher you go in altitude it actually gets warmer during the growing season, especially on the east side of the AVA as there is direct sun longer and later in the day and they don’t cool off quite as much at night. The ridges on 3 sides of me just out of the AVA all grow bigger reds, the Navarro River breeze off the Pacific does not hit the ridges and there above the fog. They get full sun all day, rising over the Sierra Nevada mountains and setting over the pacific. The valley portion of AV gets less direct sunlight as were flanked by 1000’+ ridges and its only 1mi wide at the widest, were farming in a hole.

There are other issues that may be affecting the finesse you talking about that have nothing to do with the weather. Such as pick dates (they vary 4-8 weeks from the same site based on producer style preference), is the fruit trucked or made in valley (the long travel time and night picks do nothing good for the fruit that has to leave the valley which is most of it), M&A activity (very few wineries that source fruit from a particular place seem to be able to get through 10 vintages, either the vineyard gets sold or the winery gets sold/closes and thus its hard to really “learn” a place), to many producers making too many varietals of wines from too many AVA’s to keep focused (this is a newer trend away from AV or PN focused brands to trying to offer something for everyone). Since I left my day job 7 years ago we have lost 20 of 27 tasting rooms, 17 of those locations have reopened with other brands, 2 new tasting rooms are scheduled to open this spring. Were about to celebrate our 11 year tasting room anniversary, we are now the 7th oldest tasting room in AV.

[Scott_E1]

I would add Sojourn to your list of “must try” West Sonoma Coast Pinot. Sojourn makes fantastic Pinot from the Walala and Ridgetop vineyards. Cheers!

[rgallagher]

If you haven’t listened already, “IDTT Wine 462: David Hirsch and the Hirsch Vineyards” is interesting. I enjoyed the episode. David Hirsch has lived a life!

[Viet_Ly]

Thanks for the info. Will be listening to it on my commute home today

Please update us on the wines you end up tasting and your thoughts.

I’m a big fan on Littorai but I think they are less fruit forward in a style more similar to Failla (which I also enjoy) based on my experience. I think I would put LIOCO in this category as well.

If you want red/medium cherry/raspberry style balanced with nice acid I think Boheme is a good match for you. I visited Kurt two years ago and have really enjoyed the PN from him. I recently drank a bottle of his 2014 Stuller which had improved: gaining some interesting aromatic notes and with the structure integrating a bit since I first tasted it two years ago. Agree with others that Hirsch is enjoyable but maybe a bit more rustic finish than other producers (love Littorai’s version, WS version a bit fruitier a better match for you if that’s what you’re looking for).

[John_Ammons]

As a fan of Western Sonoma wines, you may find this of interest:

West of West Festival – West Sonoma Coast wineries

Also a second shout out for Littorai, both for the sonoma coast and western Mendocino pinots. They aren’t cheap, but if you’re willing to age them they’re worth every penny.

[DougS]

Enthusiastic +1 on the Raen wines. They’re special.

Anderson Valley wines almost always lack the finesse of the best from the true coastal sites in Sonoma, in my opinion. It’s a lot warmer up there, even at elevation. That might not be a bad thing for Julie, but it’s worth noting.

Average temperatures in AV are near 10* cooler than coastal Sonoma, more than that for RRV and Carneros. The biggest difference is the diurnal swings which are 50*+ here in Boonville during the growing season. We have warmer days and colder nights, just the type of stress I want on the vines. The real coastal sites often only have 10* diurnal shifts, never warm and never cold. AV is the only PN AVA in CA that gets frost every spring, its just a matter of how many.

The higher you go in altitude it actually gets warmer during the growing season, especially on the east side of the AVA as there is direct sun longer and later in the day and they don’t cool off quite as much at night. The ridges on 3 sides of me just out of the AVA all grow bigger reds, the Navarro River breeze off the Pacific does not hit the ridges and there above the fog. They get full sun all day, rising over the Sierra Nevada mountains and setting over the pacific. The valley portion of AV gets less direct sunlight as were flanked by 1000’+ ridges and its only 1mi wide at the widest, were farming in a hole.

There are other issues that may be affecting the finesse you talking about that have nothing to do with the weather. Such as pick dates (they vary 4-8 weeks from the same site based on producer style preference), is the fruit trucked or made in valley (the long travel time and night picks do nothing good for the fruit that has to leave the valley which is most of it), M&A activity (very few wineries that source fruit from a particular place seem to be able to get through 10 vintages, either the vineyard gets sold or the winery gets sold/closes and thus its hard to really “learn” a place), to many producers making too many varietals of wines from too many AVA’s to keep focused (this is a newer trend away from AV or PN focused brands to trying to offer something for everyone). Since I left my day job 7 years ago we have lost 20 of 27 tasting rooms, 17 of those locations have reopened with other brands, 2 new tasting rooms are scheduled to open this spring. Were about to celebrate our 11 year tasting room anniversary, we are now the 7th oldest tasting room in AV.

Thanks for the detailed post explaining why I’m wrong when it comes to average temperatures. What you’ve said does tell me that it’s far warmer during the day in AV vs. SC, which I do think comes through in the wines. When I think about Copain, who made an active decision to switch to earlier harvests, their Pinot Noirs still have very ripe fruit profiles from that era, and not the finesse I’m talking about. A more extreme example would be Knez (at least from a few years ago when I was trying their wines), and though they achieved very lean wines with low ABVs, I don’t think there was harmony there, thus not finesse either. Frankly, the wines seemed underripe to me. So, while I am happy to admit to being wrong on the statement I made, I still do think there are climatic reasons (not just the ones you gave, which I’m sure are relevant in many cases) for the difference in overall style that I mentioned. Do you not think so? If diurnal shift could moderate daytime heat to such an extent to influence all of the factors that make up that abstract idea of “finesse”, maybe they’d be growing Pinot Noir in Walla Walla. I’m happy to be told why I’m wrong again, though, and if you have examples of specific wines I should try that prove your point, I’m all ears.

[Juliec]

Thank you for the collective sharing of wine experience with the West Sonoma Coast region!! I have definitely been looking back at this thread for additional notes and insights. To summarize the wineries noted:

• means multiple recommendations, * means wines that i have purchased or tasted.

Peay+* (Savoy, Les Titans), Williams Selyem (Hirsch, Coastlands)+, Syrah from Ft Ross, Raen, Hirsch+, Kutch(McDougall, Bohan)+, Iskaranu (Putnam), Boheme (Cuvée Abigail)+, Kendrick, Wild Hog, Cobb, Littorai(Cerise, Savoy,Hirsch)+, Maybach (Irmagard), Occidental+, Senses, Furthermore, Withers, Rivers-Marie+, Failla, Freeman+, Drew Valenti, Morning Dew Ranch, Phillip Hill, GoldenEye, Baxter, Sojourn(Ridgetop, Walala)+*, Fort Ross, Dutton Goldfield (Freestone).

25-30 recommendations. There is a lot to review, analyze, and cellar. Peay, Failla, Sojourn, Bergstrom, and PG Cellars are ones that I have tried and really like, esp Peay. The technical information is helpful to narrow down my palate. I have also found Wayfarer and Three Sticks (Walala) to be interesting to try. Plan to get to WS, Boheme, and Littorai along with the others that I have cellared but haven’t tried yet.

[John_Ammons]

Since you’re listing Littorai’s Mendocino wines also, you should include Roman, Wendling and One Acre (One Acre is very close to Savoy). The others are more western (Deep End) Anderson Valley.

[David_Baum]

Yes Cerise, Savoy, Baxter and Goldeneye are all in Anderson Valley

Also the estate Chardonnay and Pinot from Peay are both exceptional also

[Aalok_Patel]

Since you’re listing Littorai’s Mendocino wines also, you should include Roman, Wendling and One Acre (One Acre is very close to Savoy). The others are more western (Deep End) Anderson Valley.

Littorai’s newest vineyard designate offering (The Return) would also fall in this category. It’s from the same property as One Acre.

[Juliec]

I would add Sojourn to your list of “must try” West Sonoma Coast Pinot. Sojourn makes fantastic Pinot from the Walala and Ridgetop vineyards. Cheers!

Thanks Scott. I agree! Only tried the 2017 Walala so far with tasting - and it was excellent (a bit similar to but not exactly like Three Sticks Walala). What do you think of the 2017 versus 2018 vintages for both Walala and Ridgetop? Is Ridgetop a little higher in alcohol content?