What goes with Chinese food? Not Dujac.

[Fred_C]

@C Fu

@Mark Golodetz

Pre food:
A 1996 Combottes was showing beautifully. Cherry, rose petals, licorice, a touch of green and the beginnings of the tertiary wood floor notes. Needed time.

Unfortunately it did not get any. Knowing I would be cooking all of tomorrow, we ordered Chinese food. General Tso Chicken, Szechuan beef, Moo shoo pork, decent enough in their own right, but they instantly killed the Dujac. It tasted metallic and the fruit had disappeared.

We bagged what little there was in the bottle, but even half an hour after we had finished eating, our palates were not really back to normal. Sugar, spice and soy are not an easy match. Makes you wonder whether all those great Burgundies going to China are paired only with Western food.

You mean your dujac didn’t pair with American food.

French are probably wondering if all their great burgs being shipped to the US are being paired with Pizza Hut and Mc Donald’s or only French food (not to imply all French food would pair with Dujac).

Burgs go well with Cantonese roast squab, roast duck, and roast suckling pig. Young burgs also pair well with Shanghai braised pork even though that has soy and sugar in it.

Maybe it’s not the soy but the heavy garlic and onions in the Szechuan beef and moo shoo pork that made it a fail. Like trying to pair Dujac with a Philly cheesesteak with sweet peppers or jambalaya.

[Chris_Seiber]

@Gary York

Look around and see what is on the tables. Bud, Heineken and Tsingtao. And or course Tea. Think you know something they don’t? Or some other good style lager. Sometimes the best choice is the most obvious.

Look around the table at any restaurant and see what they’re drinking – it’s not a very good guide for what a wine lover ought to drink there. It is indeed very possible we know something they don’t.

[Craig_G]

@Chris Seiber

@Gary York

Look around and see what is on the tables. Bud, Heineken and Tsingtao. And or course Tea. Think you know something they don’t? Or some other good style lager. Sometimes the best choice is the most obvious.

Look around the table at any restaurant and see what they’re drinking – it’s not a very good guide for what a wine lover ought to drink there. It is indeed very possible we know something they don’t.

Yeah, I’m not sure what to think in this case. I’ve been in a steak restaurant outside Brussels where everyone was drinking Kriek, and in that case I would be inclined to go with the locals, but if I go to a steakhouse in California and everyone is drinking Caymus, not so much.

[PCLIN]

@Fred C

@C Fu

@Mark Golodetz

Pre food:
A 1996 Combottes was showing beautifully. Cherry, rose petals, licorice, a touch of green and the beginnings of the tertiary wood floor notes. Needed time.

Unfortunately it did not get any. Knowing I would be cooking all of tomorrow, we ordered Chinese food. General Tso Chicken, Szechuan beef, Moo shoo pork, decent enough in their own right, but they instantly killed the Dujac. It tasted metallic and the fruit had disappeared.

We bagged what little there was in the bottle, but even half an hour after we had finished eating, our palates were not really back to normal. Sugar, spice and soy are not an easy match. Makes you wonder whether all those great Burgundies going to China are paired only with Western food.

You mean your dujac didn’t pair with American food.

French are probably wondering if all their great burgs being shipped to the US are being paired with Pizza Hut and Mc Donald’s or only French food (not to imply all French food would pair with Dujac).

Burgs go well with Cantonese roast squab, roast duck, and roast suckling pig. Young burgs also pair well with Shanghai braised pork even though that has soy and sugar in it.

Maybe it’s not the soy but the heavy garlic and onions in the Szechuan beef and moo shoo pork that made it a fail. Like trying to pair Dujac with a Philly cheesesteak with sweet peppers or jambalaya.

Spot on! Fred.

[Mark_Golodetz]

This is getting a little silly isn’t it? The Chinese food may have been Americanized but it still uses the basic flavorings and spices found in Chinese food, with greater or lesser amounts of sugar. Having been in China several times, and had my fair share of banquets, the food does not in general, pair well with fine Burgundy. There are much better wine matches around, as has mentioned in this thread.

As for some of the suggestions, Shanghai braised pork, if you are talking about the red pork shanks, it is a disaster. The belly is a little better as the fat manages to mitigate some of the salt and sugar. The roast duck, quite heavy with sugar and soy eviscerated the flavors of Burgundy and I am no fan of pekin duck either, it ruined a Rousseau Beze that somebody had kindly brought to Beijing Duck House. If you choose very carefully, and go to the plainer dishes of Cantonese, you can find a few that will work, but you kind of lose the whole point of Chinese cuisine, which is all about bold and interesting dishes.

[Sebastian_C]

@Fred C

@C Fu

@Mark Golodetz

Pre food:
A 1996 Combottes was showing beautifully. Cherry, rose petals, licorice, a touch of green and the beginnings of the tertiary wood floor notes. Needed time.

Unfortunately it did not get any. Knowing I would be cooking all of tomorrow, we ordered Chinese food. General Tso Chicken, Szechuan beef, Moo shoo pork, decent enough in their own right, but they instantly killed the Dujac. It tasted metallic and the fruit had disappeared.

We bagged what little there was in the bottle, but even half an hour after we had finished eating, our palates were not really back to normal. Sugar, spice and soy are not an easy match. Makes you wonder whether all those great Burgundies going to China are paired only with Western food.

You mean your dujac didn’t pair with American food.

French are probably wondering if all their great burgs being shipped to the US are being paired with Pizza Hut and Mc Donald’s or only French food (not to imply all French food would pair with Dujac).

Burgs go well with Cantonese roast squab, roast duck, and roast suckling pig. Young burgs also pair well with Shanghai braised pork even though that has soy and sugar in it.

Maybe it’s not the soy but the heavy garlic and onions in the Szechuan beef and moo shoo pork that made it a fail. Like trying to pair Dujac with a Philly cheesesteak with sweet peppers or jambalaya.

Interesting that you are equating “American food” with Pizza Hut and Mcdonalds. I am pretty confident that no one is bringing a bottle of Dujac to any of those restaurants. I have to admit that I struggle to pair wine with Chinese food. Of course I have probably tried only a fraction of what constitutes Chinese cuisine(which I love BTW).

[Fred_C]

@Sebastian C.

Interesting that you are equating “American food” with Pizza Hut and Mcdonalds. I am pretty confident that no one is bringing a bottle of Dujac to any of those restaurants. I have to admit that I struggle to pair wine with Chinese food. Of course I have probably tried only a fraction of what constitutes Chinese cuisine(which I love BTW).

That’s the point. General Tso Chicken, Szechuan beef, Moo shoo pork is to Chinese food what Pizza Hut and McDonalds is to American food.

[Fred_C]

@Mark Golodetz

This is getting a little silly isn’t it? The Chinese food may have been Americanized but it still uses the basic flavorings and spices found in Chinese food, with greater or lesser amounts of sugar. Having been in China several times, and had my fair share of banquets, the food does not in general, pair well with fine Burgundy. There are much better wine matches around, as has mentioned in this thread.

As for some of the suggestions, Shanghai braised pork, if you are talking about the red pork shanks, it is a disaster. The belly is a little better as the fat manages to mitigate some of the salt and sugar. The roast duck, quite heavy with sugar and soy eviscerated the flavors of Burgundy and I am no fan of pekin duck either, it ruined a Rousseau Beze that somebody had kindly brought to Beijing Duck House. If you choose very carefully, and go to the plainer dishes of Cantonese, you can find a few that will work, but you kind of lose the whole point of Chinese cuisine, which is all about bold and interesting dishes.

Chinese food is no more about big bold flavors than wine is. Maybe your preference is for big bold flavored Chinese food but there is such a range of regional cuisines and with it certain subtleties and balance in many dishes.

So your point is great burg is wasted in China? A bit silly don’t you think?

I remember reading the Brits felt the same way when Americans first got into wine.

Tell you what Mark, bring your Roussesu beze to LA and we’ll get you a better pairing than moo shoo pork.

[Peter_Chiu]

@C Fu

@Mark Golodetz

Pre food:
A 1996 Combottes was showing beautifully. Cherry, rose petals, licorice, a touch of green and the beginnings of the tertiary wood floor notes. Needed time.

Unfortunately it did not get any. Knowing I would be cooking all of tomorrow, we ordered Chinese food. General Tso Chicken, Szechuan beef, Moo shoo pork, decent enough in their own right, but they instantly killed the Dujac. It tasted metallic and the fruit had disappeared.

We bagged what little there was in the bottle, but even half an hour after we had finished eating, our palates were not really back to normal. Sugar, spice and soy are not an easy match. Makes you wonder whether all those great Burgundies going to China are paired only with Western food.

You mean your dujac didn’t pair with American food.

Charlie…you said it better than me.

I always … …when posters in a wine board ( such as this ) talk about matching with wines with Chinese food.

Well there are many, many kinds of Chinese food .

For me the best kind of wine to go with Cantonese food is : Burgundy.

[Mark_Golodetz]

@Fred C

@Mark Golodetz

This is getting a little silly isn’t it? The Chinese food may have been Americanized but it still uses the basic flavorings and spices found in Chinese food, with greater or lesser amounts of sugar. Having been in China several times, and had my fair share of banquets, the food does not in general, pair well with fine Burgundy. There are much better wine matches around, as has mentioned in this thread.

As for some of the suggestions, Shanghai braised pork, if you are talking about the red pork shanks, it is a disaster. The belly is a little better as the fat manages to mitigate some of the salt and sugar. The roast duck, quite heavy with sugar and soy eviscerated the flavors of Burgundy and I am no fan of pekin duck either, it ruined a Rousseau Beze that somebody had kindly brought to Beijing Duck House. If you choose very carefully, and go to the plainer dishes of Cantonese, you can find a few that will work, but you kind of lose the whole point of Chinese cuisine, which is all about bold and interesting dishes.

Chinese food is no more about big bold flavors than wine is. Maybe your preference is for big bold flavored Chinese food but there is such a range of regional cuisines and with it certain subtleties and balance in many dishes.

So your point is great burg is wasted in China? A bit silly don’t you think?

I remember reading the Brits felt the same way when Americans first got into wine.

No, that is not what I said at all.

Burgundy does not work with the vast majority of Chinese dishes, be they in China, New York or Timbuktu. And they also don’t work with escargot, curries, pizza and Big Macs.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

We like nigori sake with traditional Szechuan’s spicier dishes.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Mark Golodetz

This is getting a little silly isn’t it? The Chinese food may have been Americanized but it still uses the basic flavorings and spices found in Chinese food, with greater or lesser amounts of sugar. Having been in China several times, and had my fair share of banquets, the food does not in general, pair well with fine Burgundy. There are much better wine matches around, as has mentioned in this thread.

As for some of the suggestions, Shanghai braised pork, if you are talking about the red pork shanks, it is a disaster. The belly is a little better as the fat manages to mitigate some of the salt and sugar. The roast duck, quite heavy with sugar and soy eviscerated the flavors of Burgundy and I am no fan of pekin duck either, it ruined a Rousseau Beze that somebody had kindly brought to Beijing Duck House. If you choose very carefully, and go to the plainer dishes of Cantonese, you can find a few that will work, but you kind of lose the whole point of Chinese cuisine, which is all about bold and interesting dishes.

Mark…matching any kind food with Burgundy wine is not easy. It will be more difficulty to match Burgundy wine with Chinese food.

I know Chinses food and I also know about Burgundy wine. I am shy to and not knowledgable enough to talk about matching them because…there are so many variable. For example, first I do not know your taste or your preferene to what style of burgundy wine and second I also do not know your taste or preference to what kind ( or style ) of Chinese food you prefer.

[Peter_Chiu]

The roast duck, quite heavy with sugar and soy eviscerated the flavors of Burgundy and I am no fan of pekin duck either, it ruined a Rousseau Beze that somebody had kindly brought to Beijing Duck House

The best dish to go with any Rousseau Beze…is : boiled potato without any butter

[Mark_Y]

@Peter Chiu

@C Fu

You mean your dujac didn’t pair with American food.

Charlie…you said it better than me.
I always … …when posters in a wine board ( such as this ) talk about matching with wines with Chinese food.

Well there are many, many kinds of Chinese food .
For me the best kind of wine to go with Cantonese food is : Burgundy.

You know what doesn’t go with Italian food? Italian wine!

I had some curry pork chop with baked spaghetti (in a HK cafe). It would pair terribly with a Sassicaia

[Mark_Y]

@Mark Golodetz

The Chinese food may have been Americanized but it still uses the basic flavorings and spices found in Chinese food

Mooshoo Pork and General Tso’s Chicken? the only remotely Chinese about those are the sounds of the dish’s names.

Throwing in salt, sugar, and ‘chinese’ spices into a pan and stiring it around with some chicken doesn’t make it Chinese any more than me opening a can of Ragu and calling my dish “italian”…

@Mark Golodetz

Having been in China several times, and had my fair share of banquets,

And honestly not picking on Mark specifically but this quote made me laugh and reminded me of a Total Wine sales guy who ‘knows French wine’ b/c he’s been to France… twice!

[Mark_Golodetz]

@Peter Chiu

The roast duck, quite heavy with sugar and soy eviscerated the flavors of Burgundy and I am no fan of pekin duck either, it ruined a Rousseau Beze that somebody had kindly brought to Beijing Duck House

The best dish to go with any Rousseau Beze…is : boiled potato without any butter

Potatoes roasted in duck fat are pretty good too.

[Jay_Miller]

@Mark Golodetz

@Peter Chiu

The roast duck, quite heavy with sugar and soy eviscerated the flavors of Burgundy and I am no fan of pekin duck either, it ruined a Rousseau Beze that somebody had kindly brought to Beijing Duck House

The best dish to go with any Rousseau Beze…is : boiled potato without any butter

Potatoes roasted in duck fat are pretty good too.

that reminds me, I made a duck breast last night so I need to pick up some potatoes. thanks!

[Mark_Golodetz]

@Mark Y

@Mark Golodetz

The Chinese food may have been Americanized but it still uses the basic flavorings and spices found in Chinese food

Mooshoo Pork and General Tso’s Chicken? the only remotely Chinese about those are the sounds of the dish’s names.

Throwing in salt, sugar, and ‘chinese’ spices into a pan and stiring it around with some chicken doesn’t make it Chinese any more than me opening a can of Ragu and calling my dish “italian”…

@Mark Golodetz

Having been in China several times, and had my fair share of banquets,

And honestly not picking on Mark specifically but this quote made me laugh and reminded me of a Total Wine sales guy who ‘knows French wine’ b/c he’s been to France… twice!

Ok, Mark, tell me some dishes containing significant amounts of soy, ginger, sugar, garlic, spicy pepper and sesame work that that with Burgundy? Let’s go beyond that. The glory of Burgundy is its complexity. Which dishes allow the wines to really show that complexity?

[Mark_Golodetz]

[quote=“Jay Miller”

that reminds me, I made a duck breast last night so I need to pick up some potatoes. thanks![/quote]

If you need extra, we had six ducks last night. Plenty of fat.

[Mark_Y]

@Mark Golodetz

Ok, Mark, tell me some dishes containing significant amounts of soy, sugar spicy pepper and sesame work that that with Burgundy? Let’s go beyond that. The glory of Burgundy is its complexity. Which dishes allow the wines to really show that complexity?

Roasted Duck
Squab (pigeon?)
Steamed Rockfish (minus the heavy soy)
Crispy skin pork
Brasied beef (braised, chilled, and served sliced)
Lettuce wrap if the filling is made not to be overly salty
Might be personal preferences, but I like it with simple fried rice too (just egg, and maybe some salmon can be good too)

Those might not all contain significant amounts of soy, sugar, or spicy… but they’re still Chinese food… (at least much more so than General Tso’s kitchen )

And honestly i’m not trying to argue either way…I just thought it was funny to lump all the varieties of food in China into 'Chinese food" - and using mooshoo pork as a representative sample