What is More Consistently Good: Burg or Bordeaux?

WINE TALK
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[worship.gif] [worship.gif] [cheers.gif]

I have the perfect title for a wine thread for next April 1 - Rolland to start consulting for Baudry and other top Loire estates.

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Heart versus head redux; very well expressed by Sean. This will sound contradictory, as it invokes the head, but I also think that Burgs appeal more to geeks who study micro-climate; soil; subtle differences in elevage; etc. While I know that all those matter in Bordeaux I think they are more transparent (apparent?) in Burgundy.

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Of course, if you want idiosyncratic, exquisite and consistent, the Loire’s the place to go now but shh don’t tell anyone else!

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This, well, except for the consistent part. Weather is a bit more sketchy, though we’ve definitely had a great run recently.

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Burgundy can be consistently good, but it’s harder to catch “in the zone”.
Bordeaux you have to spends wads of cash figuring out if the wine is made in your style or not, which is not easy when so many are made in styles all over the map. Burgundy is much more consistent and good, you can almost always expect a good wine.

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I think Burgundy is way more complicated than Bordeaux. Bordeaux Chateaux are mostly large estates producing large quantities of wine. Burgundy Domaines are very small in comparison in most cases and they produce very small quantities of wine from a dozen+ sites. To understand the area entirely takes you an entire life.

I think it is financially easier to select the best fruit from a vineyard of 50 hectares than from 1 hectare which is not unusual in Burgundy. If the vintage was good and no difficult and no risky decisions are needed to produce fine wine then most what emerges from Burgundy is between good to superb. If it was a difficult year for the one or other reason you can experience anything, even almost a disaster.

The highs and lows are not that big at Bordeaux IMO. Selection is easier and Cabernet and Merlot are more robust than Pinot Noir. Some old winemakers sometimes said: If you can make good Pinot Noir you can make everything because no other grape is more demanding and difficult than Pinot. If you can handle all these challenges you can handle all the others in a vineyard or cellar.

I like both, Burgundy and Bordeaux. And Tuscany, Spain, Northern Rhone, Beaujolais, South Afrika, Germany, Switzerland, Austria … so many good wines are available today … focusing on one region alone is boring IMO.

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TCA infected corks.

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They are just different and this is a daft inquiry. “What’s more consistently good: Napa or Oregon: Brunello or Barolo: Port or Sherry: Alsace or Mosel: Northern Rhone or Chinon,” would be akin to what you are asking.

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I actually disagree with last post. Bordeaux and Burgundy in red seem to me to represent two different poles of approaches to wine–one, as others have said, based on the profile of a chateau, which blends!, and which does not have to source from contiguous vineyards and the other, much more tied to place (though I know not always a single vineyard per wine), vintage, and made in much smaller qualities. Assuming roughly the same price point, let’s say $100-$200, I think it just is easier and more probable to purchase, cellar, and open a bottle of Bordeaux that you will consistently enjoy. Yet the highs are higher, imho, in Burgundy and there’s the rub.
(To be clear, I enjoy and cellar both, and Cali and Oregon and Italy and Portugal and Spain and so on; but the largest percentage of my cellar is Burgundy, red and white.)

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I actually don’t think it is daft at all. Being different is not the same as a lack of consistency. As I said, the best wines I’ve ever had have been from Burgundy, but dollar for dollar they also underperform far more than Bordeaux. I will always drink Burgundy for those moments when it achieves something that for me no other region can. It is just perplexing and frustrating — again maybe it is just me — that I spend more time chasing that moment than actually experiencing it.

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I had one friend text me this morning after our discussion the other night and suggested that because Pinot is a more delicate grape that maybe it does not travel as well and so Americans are getting a less consistent product than France.

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To build on this statement, I recently had a corked bottle of Richebourg and within the last year and I have to say that the disappointment for this wine being corked was far greater than a bottle of corked Bordeaux that I actually paid more for. So the disappointment was not weighted based on cost, but the loss of a potential experience. I value the lost experience of the Burgundy more than I did of the Bordeaux.

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Easy to answer. Whichever ones you like best. In your favorite regions, one tends to like good and great wines. In one’s less favored regions, one tends to only like the great wines.

I just wish the people who don’t really like Burgundy would just stop buying it. Just don’t worry your pretty little heads about it and save the wine for people who love it. It boggles my mind how much money people are willing to pay for wines they don’t like in the hopes that lightening will strike.

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Sorry for your bad luck.

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Bordeaux is more consistent. Burgundy is more consistently good.

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I would say that Bordeaux is more consistently good than Burgundy; when it is good, Burgundy is more often great than Bordeaux.

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Love this :joy::joy:

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I drink a lot of Burgundy between $50 to $75, at least a few bottles a month, and enjoy the vast majority of it. It is just at the next level up ($100+ a bottle), I experience more inconsistency than in other regions. It is entirely possible it is just me and poor buying choices.

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Fourrier is more consistently good than the whole of Bordeaux… [cheers.gif]

Mugnier is …

Mugneret Gibourg is…

And many many others…

… consistently Good… except when they are out of this world… which is also consistently achieved flirtysmile

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Are you drinking wine from the same producers (say villages level wines in the group you like vs. premier crus from the same producers for the higher priced group) or are you going to different producers for the more expensive wines. Our Burgundy tasting group has traditionally done about a tasting a year where the theme is villages level wines. We are always surprised at just how good they are. I think there are at least two reasons to this. First, the wines tend to come from higher level producers - I think there is a tendency for all of us to try to jump to grand crus at the +100 category and go down a bit on producer since prices have risen so much (esp. since the tariff).

Next, price does not always equal quality. I tend to prize finesse in Burgundies more than power (although this is not always true). Wines from wineries like Dublere or Amiot, for example, tend not to get the big scores that wines from guys making bigger wines tend to get and so can be much better values (and wines) than wines from producers making bigger wines. The same could be happening to you - you might prize different qualities in a wine from the majority of the market. That could be good. For years I loved the wines of Jacky Truchot even though most critics did not. So, the wines were pretty reasonably priced until he retired at which point everyone on the internet seemed to fall in love with the wines at the same time and prices went soaring. You probably could find a number of threads from a small group of people on this board who have fallen in love in red wines from Chassagne Montrachet. These wines are not for everyone. But, I love the good ones.

Also, while there are exceptions, I think more village level wines tend to taste good at say around 10-15 years old while higher level wines need more time. This difference even can be true among grand crus. A few years ago I was able to buy some Rossignol-Trapet 2001 grand crus at the winery for really good prices. The Latricieres Chambertins I purchased are really good, but the Chambertin I had was not near ready yet. Yes, the Chambertin is objectively the better wine and someday will taste better but for right now I get a lot more pleasure drinking the Latricieres.

I have seen posts about how there is something wrong with a Bonnes Mares or a Corton because they don’t taste really good at 10 years old. Well the wine is what it is and what it is is a wine that needs lots of time. At 10 years old, I would rather have a good villages wine than a Corton. At 25, my preferences might well be different. Not too different from Bordeaux. I am not drinking Latour or Leoville las Cases too often at 10-15 years old.

In summary, if you like the $50-75 Burgundies you are buying more than the $100+ Burgundies you are buying, buy the ones you like better. Wine is about enjoyment. If you like Bordeaux better than Burgundy, drink more Bordeaux. If you like $50 Burgundy better than $100 Burgundy, be thankful and buy what you like.