What to drink with sushi: How about pinot noir?

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

While I like sake with sashimi a lot and also enjoy it with sushi - with most Japanese food, in fact - I think it shines most at the isakaya rather than the sushi counter. And that makes sense because isakayas came to be as places to stop and drink some sake and have a few snacks. There’s usually some raw fish on the menu, but also grilled, steamed, fried, and stewed dishes, an array which lends itself to pairing with something as varied as sake.

For me, I agree that, if you want to do sake with sushi, junmai ginjo or daiginjo is usually the way to go for most traditional sushi meals. I like the clean, more delicate, fruity, melony, minty profile as a lacy background to let the quality of the fish shine.

That said, daiginjo is not at all my favorite style of sake. I love, love, love yamahai and kimoto – the depth and complexity, higher acidity, and delightful rich funk (this is not a flaw in sake, by the way) is perfect for my palate. I think yamahai is food pairing magic, and a no brainer with things like grilled meats, umami-rich dishes with mushrooms, various earthy vegetable preps etc. Yamahai sake is also a great crossover into pairing with western foods, and can really surprise with funky stinky cheeses, for example.

I am not exactly objective, though, because the brewery that my husband imports, Kikuhime, specializes in the yamahai style, and I think makes the best examples out there. There are also some aged bottlings that will knock your socks off – not at all the dark oxidized style of most koshu, but crystal clear and highly complex. PM me if interested in where to find these in the US, mostly NY and CA. These are not cheap, however, so I’d also recommend checking out Paul Willenberg’s selections, which tend to fall into a more moderate price range. He distributes some terrific breweries like Shichi Hon Yari and Shichida.

I like beverages other than sake with sushi, too, but admit to being fairly stodgy. I usually don’t chose red wine because, though there are some good matches (like with tuna), there are enough bad misses that I’d rather drink something that works better across the board for me, like champagne or Riesling, which are favorites anyway.

[YLee]

I’m surprised everytime people see raw fish they think “Japan” when it didnt even start from there. I guess the Western world learned about it mostly from Japan and just figured it’s from there.

[David_Bu3ker]

I’d rather drink something that works better across the board for me, like champagne or Riesling, which are favorites anyway.

Champagne would in fact be my go-to choice, but that would get me killed two ways. First, I would be having fish, which my wife detests. Second, if I just went out alone to get sushi, I would be drinking Champagne without her, which is a marital death sentence. Hence the red wine…

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

I’m surprised everytime people see raw fish they think “Japan” when it didnt even start from there. I guess the Western world learned about it mostly from Japan and just figured it’s from there.

This thread isn’t about raw fish in general. It is about sushi. I think it’s just fine to think Japan when asked about sushi.

[Phil_T_r_o_t_t_e_r]

As my love for Albariño has grown, so has my desire to have it with sushi. Some Leirana or Do Ferreiro (green label) with Sushi works amazing. It’s not 03 CdP from mag, but what else is?

I really like Albariño as well and have tried many different ones but it never struck me as sushi pairing material. You’ve made me question myself. I’ll put that on the to-do list. Is it not too overpowering with raw white fish or sea scallops? By the way, good call on the Leirana. Not only is it one of my favorites Albariño but I could see this more refined Albariño do better with delicate fish and seafood.

[John_Danza]

For my palate, my go-to for sushi is either champagne or troken Riesling. I do like Sercial Madeira and fino sherry with sushi as well.

[Thomas_Keim]

For my palate, my go-to for sushi is either champagne or troken Riesling.

That goes for me as well. I also like a young village Chablis, upper tier Sake (the chillable kind) or a nice pilsener.

[B_Beachy]

That said, daiginjo is not at all my favorite style of sake. I love, love, love yamahai and kimoto – the depth and complexity, higher acidity, and delightful rich funk (this is not a flaw in sake, by the way) is perfect for my palate.

Great suggestions! I would clarify that daiginjo isn’t necessarily a distinct category from yamahai and kimoto. Daiginjo is the rice polish level, and the other two are descriptions of how it is made. You can have a daiginjo version of either of these, even if they aren’t common (or honjozo, ginjo, etc.).

For sake, there are so many different pairing possibilities depending on what you are eating. Smokier flavors or more sea-oriented flavors may need a different pairing than fatty tuna nigiri or an Americanized roll. Anything from a fresh nama (if you are lucky to have access outside of Japan), your great recommendations for yamahai and kimoto (I like the versatility of those suggestions), to a crisp and elegant junmai daiginjo. I don’t care how badly I’m judged for it or how ignorant it makes me look… I like a Japanese lager and sake at the same time to go back and forth. The beer is refreshing and a nice palate cleanser between servings, and the sake is the thing that really complements the unique flavors. I’m sure I’m laughed at, but I’ll survive.

As for grape wine, I don’t feel like I could really buy into pinot noir as a sushi complement unless someone proved it to me. It would be too much drive in different directions. If I’m choosing something that would broadly go with many dishes I like (I tend to like sashimi and nigiri more than rolls), I’d go with an Alsatian Pinot Blanc for something that wouldn’t overshadow, a Chablis (as mentioned by Thomas) for more of a complement, and as a totally random and harder to find recommendation that would make some things sing, I had a dry Malvasia Bianca (Tasca D’Almerita Tenuta Capofaro Didyme Salina IGT) that is amazing with a full spectrum of fish dishes and would likely hit right with sushi (for me).

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

That said, daiginjo is not at all my favorite style of sake. I love, love, love yamahai and kimoto – the depth and complexity, higher acidity, and delightful rich funk (this is not a flaw in sake, by the way) is perfect for my palate.

Great suggestions! I would clarify that daiginjo isn’t necessarily a distinct category from yamahai and kimoto. Daiginjo is the rice polish level, and the other two are descriptions of how it is made. You can have a daiginjo version of either of these, even if they aren’t common (or honjozo, ginjo, etc.).

Entirely correct, of course. However I think my description of the clean, pure, minty, melony flavors made it pretty clear I was not talking about a yamahai daiginjo.

Edited to add that there are a number of sources for nama in the US now. Paul Willenberg, mentioned earlier, specializes - his IG handle is namazake Paul. The brewery my husband imports also has a nama in now, though most of it is sold out in stores. There is another container arriving soon!

[Robert_S_Luke]

That said, daiginjo is not at all my favorite style of sake. I love, love, love yamahai and kimoto – the depth and complexity, higher acidity, and delightful rich funk (this is not a flaw in sake, by the way) is perfect for my palate.

Great suggestions! I would clarify that daiginjo isn’t necessarily a distinct category from yamahai and kimoto. Daiginjo is the rice polish level, and the other two are descriptions of how it is made. You can have a daiginjo version of either of these, even if they aren’t common (or honjozo, ginjo, etc.).

For sake, there are so many different pairing possibilities depending on what you are eating. Smokier flavors or more sea-oriented flavors may need a different pairing than fatty tuna nigiri or an Americanized roll. Anything from a fresh nama (if you are lucky to have access outside of Japan), your great recommendations for yamahai and kimoto (I like the versatility of those suggestions), to a crisp and elegant junmai daiginjo. I don’t care how badly I’m judged for it or how ignorant it makes me look… I like a Japanese lager and sake at the same time to go back and forth. The beer is refreshing and a nice palate cleanser between servings, and the sake is the thing that really complements the unique flavors. I’m sure I’m laughed at, but I’ll survive.

As for grape wine, I don’t feel like I could really buy into pinot noir as a sushi complement unless someone proved it to me. It would be too much drive in different directions. If I’m choosing something that would broadly go with many dishes I like (I tend to like sashimi and nigiri more than rolls), I’d go with an Alsatian Pinot Blanc for something that wouldn’t overshadow, a Chablis (as mentioned by Thomas) for more of a complement, and as a totally random and harder to find recommendation that would make some things sing, I had a dry Malvasia Bianca (Tasca D’Almerita Tenuta Capofaro Didyme Salina IGT) that is amazing with a full spectrum of fish dishes and would likely hit right with sushi (for me).

Re Pinot noir with sushi: try it you might be surprised. I was!

[B_Beachy]

That said, daiginjo is not at all my favorite style of sake. I love, love, love yamahai and kimoto – the depth and complexity, higher acidity, and delightful rich funk (this is not a flaw in sake, by the way) is perfect for my palate.

Great suggestions! I would clarify that daiginjo isn’t necessarily a distinct category from yamahai and kimoto. Daiginjo is the rice polish level, and the other two are descriptions of how it is made. You can have a daiginjo version of either of these, even if they aren’t common (or honjozo, ginjo, etc.).

Entirely correct, of course. However I think my description of the clean, pure, minty, melony flavors made it pretty clear I was not talking about a yamahai daiginjo.

Edited to add that there are a number of sources for nama in the US now. Paul Willenberg, mentioned earlier, specializes - his IG handle is namazake Paul. The brewery my husband imports also has a nama in now, though most of it is sold out in stores. There is another container arriving soon!

Great suggestion again, for seeking advice and options through Paul! I’ve dealt with him, and he is really eager to help and promote the category as something to be enjoyed outside of just Japanese cuisine. I’ve tried my only nama through him, but it is way too hot for me to ship that stuff to the middle of the country for many more months now. There is an amazing sake Discord out there if anyone is interested in learning more, and Paul is willing to IM you to get a custom order together and figure out what you might enjoy.

[CFu]

I like the salinity pairing with older red burgundy and complex shari.

I find sake to be a pretty lazy pairing for sushi as a lot of the sake that are on the lists at even the highest end sushi restaurants tend to run sweeter due to the big distributor profile likes. I do enjoy sake here and there, but if i was going to pair it with Japanese food - it’d be with a Kaiseki meal.

I’ve bought a fair amount of sake from Paul and some of the guys in our wine group are fairly knowledgeable re: more indepth sake choices - but it’s never really sung to me as a sushi pairing.

[Ron_Slye]

I like cool climate Syrah with sushi too - you won’t be disappointed

I am intrigued by this. I would have said no to most reds with sushi or any other raw fish dish, but I recently had raw oysters with a syrah (an aged Cayuse in fact). I was grimmacing and waiting to immediately admit my mistake only to find it worked incredibly well. I can’t explain why, but it does make me think that I make certain quick assumptions about such things that are not well-grounded in fact.

[Chris_Seiber]

I like cool climate Syrah with sushi too - you won’t be disappointed

I am intrigued by this. I would have said no to most reds with sushi or any other raw fish dish, but I recently had raw oysters with a syrah (an aged Cayuse in fact). I was grimmacing and waiting to immediately admit my mistake only to find it worked incredibly well. I can’t explain why, but it does make me think that I make certain quick assumptions about such things that are not well-grounded in fact.

A big AMEN to that sentiment.

There are probably lots of interesting wine pairings beyond the ones that are traditional and conventional, and what better place to have an open and positive mind towards them than Wine Berserkers. Why slam the “it’s not conventional so just drink beer/tea/sake” door so quickly?

And beyond finding new A+ pairings, there are also a ton of wine and food pairings that are in the “perfectly decent” category, such that if you wanted to drink wine during that meal, you could do it without it clashing or being a bad experience. I’ll bring certain red wines to Vietnamese and Korean restaurants, and while it’s not a pairing home run, I can still get a solid single out of it, and it’s far more enjoyable to me than drinking average beer with the meal just because that’s what you’re supposed to do. I am, after all, a Wine Berserker.

[Keith_A_k_e_r_s]

As my love for Albariño has grown, so has my desire to have it with sushi. Some Leirana or Do Ferreiro (green label) with Sushi works amazing. It’s not 03 CdP from mag, but what else is?

I really like Albariño as well and have tried many different ones but it never struck me as sushi pairing material. You’ve made me question myself. I’ll put that on the to-do list. Is it not too overpowering with raw white fish or sea scallops? By the way, good call on the Leirana. Not only is it one of my favorites Albariño but I could see this more refined Albariño do better with delicate fish and seafood.

I normally go with more salinic/salty styles like Leirana or the Do Ferreiro as they seem to really work. It’s definitely worth a try and at worst, the wines are delicious!

[lleichtman]

While I like sake with sashimi a lot and also enjoy it with sushi - with most Japanese food, in fact - I think it shines most at the isakaya rather than the sushi counter. And that makes sense because isakayas came to be as places to stop and drink some sake and have a few snacks. There’s usually some raw fish on the menu, but also grilled, steamed, fried, and stewed dishes, an array which lends itself to pairing with something as varied as sake.

For me, I agree that, if you want to do sake with sushi, junmai ginjo or daiginjo is usually the way to go for most traditional sushi meals. I like the clean, more delicate, fruity, melony, minty profile as a lacy background to let the quality of the fish shine.

That said, daiginjo is not at all my favorite style of sake. I love, love, love yamahai and kimoto – the depth and complexity, higher acidity, and delightful rich funk (this is not a flaw in sake, by the way) is perfect for my palate. I think yamahai is food pairing magic, and a no brainer with things like grilled meats, umami-rich dishes with mushrooms, various earthy vegetable preps etc. Yamahai sake is also a great crossover into pairing with western foods, and can really surprise with funky stinky cheeses, for example.

I am not exactly objective, though, because the brewery that my husband imports, Kikuhime, specializes in the yamahai style, and I think makes the best examples out there. There are also some aged bottlings that will knock your socks off – not at all the dark oxidized style of most koshu, but crystal clear and highly complex. PM me if interested in where to find these in the US, mostly NY and CA. These are not cheap, however, so I’d also recommend checking out Paul Willenberg’s selections, which tend to fall into a more moderate price range. He distributes some terrific breweries like Shichi Hon Yari and Shichida.

I like beverages other than sake with sushi, too, but admit to being fairly stodgy. I usually don’t chose red wine because, though there are some good matches (like with tuna), there are enough bad misses that I’d rather drink something that works better across the board for me, like champagne or Riesling, which are favorites anyway.

We drink a lot of Sake 酒 at our house so am very familiar with the different styles and some of them are just way better with some types of sushi and sashimi than others. Often overlooked are the cloudy nigoriis that go well with very fatty fishes. Toro can go well with Pinot Noir though and have enjoyed it with that. I find hamachi to be too light for Pinot though and that is usually where a Sake comes into play for us.

[Barry_L_i_p_t_o_n]

As my love for Albariño has grown, so has my desire to have it with sushi. Some Leirana or Do Ferreiro (green label) with Sushi works amazing. It’s not 03 CdP from mag, but what else is?

That’s a good thought. There are awesome seafood places in Spain (with raw options) and they invariably had some Albarino by the glass that was very satisfying.

[Ron_Slye]

I like cool climate Syrah with sushi too - you won’t be disappointed

I am intrigued by this. I would have said no to most reds with sushi or any other raw fish dish, but I recently had raw oysters with a syrah (an aged Cayuse in fact). I was grimmacing and waiting to immediately admit my mistake only to find it worked incredibly well. I can’t explain why, but it does make me think that I make certain quick assumptions about such things that are not well-grounded in fact.

A big AMEN to that sentiment.

There are probably lots of interesting wine pairings beyond the ones that are traditional and conventional, and what better place to have an open and positive mind towards them than Wine Berserkers. Why slam the “it’s not conventional so just drink beer/tea/sake” door so quickly?

And beyond finding new A+ pairings, there are also a ton of wine and food pairings that are in the “perfectly decent” category, such that if you wanted to drink wine during that meal, you could do it without it clashing or being a bad experience. I’ll bring certain red wines to Vietnamese and Korean restaurants, and while it’s not a pairing home run, I can still get a solid single out of it, and it’s far more enjoyable to me than drinking average beer with the meal just because that’s what you’re supposed to do. I am, after all, a Wine Berserker.

I am in a similar camp. With minor exceptions and situations I am not a beer fan. I have liked sake but know so little about it that I am embarrassed to say anything.

I tend to view wine as another part of the meal. So I don’t overthink what vegetable to serve with a steak or lamb roast; and if I want to have a red with fish, I view that as not necessarily to complement the fish (though it might), but that I am the mood for drinking x, while also for eating y. But when a pairing works, it can be quite magical – enhancing both the food and the wine. I am usually not overly good at seeking such pairings, and while I have had some great hits at some high end restaurants, I have also had wine pairings that were fine, but nothing special. The oyster/syrah pairing was so out of left field for me that it made it that much more special. Sort of the wine equivalent of peanut butter cups…

[Keith_A_k_e_r_s]

As my love for Albariño has grown, so has my desire to have it with sushi. Some Leirana or Do Ferreiro (green label) with Sushi works amazing. It’s not 03 CdP from mag, but what else is?

That’s a good thought. There are awesome seafood places in Spain (with raw options) and they invariably had some Albarino by the glass that was very satisfying.

I have a 19 Nanclares lined up for tonight . Ya know, research and stuff

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

I like cool climate Syrah with sushi too - you won’t be disappointed

I am intrigued by this. I would have said no to most reds with sushi or any other raw fish dish, but I recently had raw oysters with a syrah (an aged Cayuse in fact). I was grimmacing and waiting to immediately admit my mistake only to find it worked incredibly well. I can’t explain why, but it does make me think that I make certain quick assumptions about such things that are not well-grounded in fact.

A big AMEN to that sentiment.

There are probably lots of interesting wine pairings beyond the ones that are traditional and conventional, and what better place to have an open and positive mind towards them than Wine Berserkers. Why slam the “it’s not conventional so just drink beer/tea/sake” door so quickly?

And beyond finding new A+ pairings, there are also a ton of wine and food pairings that are in the “perfectly decent” category, such that if you wanted to drink wine during that meal, you could do it without it clashing or being a bad experience. I’ll bring certain red wines to Vietnamese and Korean restaurants, and while it’s not a pairing home run, I can still get a solid single out of it, and it’s far more enjoyable to me than drinking average beer with the meal just because that’s what you’re supposed to do. I am, after all, a Wine Berserker.

Plus 1

While there are many classic pairings and general rules, the range of wine and food pairings that are successful is far more varied than any generalization can cover.

It also really depends upon the region and producer in addition to varietal. I have had really wonderful pairings of Pinot Noir with toro, mackerel, black cod, and even hamachi. Pairing Cayuse with oysters on the half shell seems way out there, but I buy into most of Ron’s posts and see no reason to stop here where I just have a preconception and he has actual experience.