What to tell architect for wine cellar - new construction?

I hope Robert isn’t moonlighting.

I’m not even sure one could safely install a ladder with only 5 feet - the minimum recommended ratio of run to rise is 1:4 (i.e., for each 4 feet of height you need 1 foot out from the wall. Assuming you need at least 1 foot at the bottom of the latter to mount/dismount (and that’s small) you can’t get more than 12’ of ladder there).

A bit hard to visualize all that’s going on, and what restrictions you face but can you connect the wine cellar to the pantry, and use some of the pantry space? If you want a window put it between that and the “summer kitchen”. If you have 18’ to play with, put a cooling unit up at 12’ beneath a false ceiling, build a hatch, and let the A/C maintenance guys deal with the ladder once a year or so.

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I hate to say it but this is an example of why architects should not design wine cellars. You are wise to check in here. I would never want a tall ladder in a cellar as I hate even using a step ladder when fiddling with wine. So as noted drop the ceiling and insulate down to that 8-10’ height or what you decide to use. Use closed cell foam insulation (probably 2" or 3") as that will both insulate and create your vapor barrier.

That room appears to have windows on the South side? I hoping this is wrong and you’d never want a window in a cellar. I’d personally double deep that South wall (corner to corner) and then see if you have space left on the North wall. I like to assume 4’ between racks as working space but 3’ can be Ok if needed. I prefer to rack wall to wall than try to rack 4 sides and waste corner space.

The HVAC stuff is simple once you have the layout, proper insulation, and vapor barrier done. A mini split with a coolbot is my current favorite cooling setup. Super quiet and cools great. If looking to save some $$ given you have an exterior wall you could put in a single wall mounted unit.

Having your own cellar is great. This is the one area of your house you will have to be the expert and drive that aspect of the project.

As noted by others the room is not deep enough for a rolling ladder. The cooling will need its own system, I’d recommend a split DUCTED system with an outdoor condenser, with the fan set to run full time.

The angle only applies if the top of the ladder if free and leaning against the wall. It doesn’t apply if the ladder is anchored at the top or on a captive roller system. If it is it can go straight up at 90 degrees. I certainly assume it will be on a captive roller system. It’s still a bad idea. It’s fine for books, but who wants to haul wine bottles down from 18’? you would need to have a basket on a pulley system for both storage and retrieval.

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Or a wine angel …

That is bad ass.

HAHA, just saw this!

True, would be epic failure! Although, many of my projects from 25+ years ago are still standing (and all in hurricane zones). Alas, no wine refrigerators.

I am more than happy to provide the OP with consulting - architecture, law, life, wine, philosophy, how to have a chiseled physique at 54, men’s apparel and style - with wine as the fee. But, to be clear, I ain’t cheap. A billable hour will start with a mature Trotanoy.

BTW, I really do like the overall floor plan of the house, looks great! Hope to see pics!

No kidding. I think you’ll need that degree of flexibility with a ladder to negotiate an 18’ column of wine with only about 3’x3’ of floor.

I would suggest eliminating the window in the exterior wall of the wine room. Besides the increased temperature swings from the glazing and the possibility that the window would be perpetually foggy from the humidity in the room, the daylight would be detrimental to long term storage.

Lotsa really good advice here…especially from Weinberg who said, “avoid diamond bins”, cuz they suck!

But yeah…aside from the obvious cooling requirements, the 18’ thing in a room that small is gonna make the place feel like a grain silo. My cellar had almost the same footprint as yours…6.5 x 11.3…and I managed to make it single-bottle racked for almost 2000 bottles!

I used shallower racking (10" vs 12"+) and I strapped two columns together in the middle that held about 500 bottles alone!

The ladder issue is an easy fix, just build a drone to put bottle in and remove from the upper shelves.

Don’t let the haters get you down Justin. If they can play hockey in Texas you can have your 18 ft wine cellar in Florida.

Brad, how big is the aisle between your racks, and do you find it adequate? I’m trying to figure out how small of a space I can fit my cellar into, and this looks similar to the space I have. Do you have any plan drawings you’d be open to sharing?

X2. Small space, high volume. Just what i need as well.

For reference, those floor tiles are 12”…so I’ve got about 18” between the wall racks and the center column. Trust me, It’s totally fine. I worked it out beforehand with cardboard boxes as stand-ins for the racks, so I knew I could live with a tight fit. I never wanted a ‘Show’ cellar with a silly tasting table and posters on the wall, but I did want it to look cool. I just wanted maximum storage in what was a pretty tight space. I did tongue in groove redwood walls and ceiling and terra cotta floor tiles and insulated the shit outta the thing. It’s built on the North East corner of my basement and in the winter (actually, late October thru April) the cooling unit almost never kicks in. As for plans…nah…me and my handyman put the thing together over a long weekend twenty years ago…so drawings? Who needs drawings?!! :joy: All/in, the materials…wood, tile, lighting, cooling unit, solid core door…was about $1800. I can’t remember what the racks came to, but I got them from wineracks.com cuz it was one of the only places that had (at the time) 10” deep racks. That was important, cuz it allowed me to build that center back-to-back column. And 10” racks hold a bottle just as well as a 12” rack!

…Now of course, there’s another option that would basically give you a similar amount of storage if you don’t wanna do the center column…you could double up on 12” racks against the long walls to go double-deep! So assuming you had a roughly six foot wide room, you could build out 24” deep of racking on the walls on two sides, single deep (12”) on the short ends, and still have a very roomy 24” open middle area. Dunno how the total amount of bottles would work out vs what I did, but it would hafta be pretty close…:thinking:

Brad - You’ve got my ideal cellar. If only I had a little bit of space in the house I would build the exact same thing (minus the diamond racking). Well done for knocking that out yourself.