What's the best $20 dollar bottle you know of?

[HoosJustinG]

As somebody who drinks Cali reds quite often (probably too much), I already kind of have an issue with the Ridge and Caymus as your first two picks. Both are quality producers, but made in a much different style (and from different regions). I think a much more fair comparison would be to grab Caymus Special Selection, Caymus Cabernet and Conundrum Red, for instance. Those roughly hit your price points…

Lots of Napa producers have first and second labels that will fall into your first two price points at ~200 and ~80 bucks … once you’ve picked those, I’d come back here and ask for a $20-35 wine that’s made in a similar style and with high QPR. I think that will likely be the most illuminating set up if you’re trying to have a QPR discussion with your friends.

Sounds fun, either way, though …

[Michae1_P0wers]

I’m not sure I fully understand the goal. Do you really want people’s impression of the best $20 bottle? Do you want the $20 bottle people find most likely to be confused for an $80 or $200 bottle? Are you also asking for advice on which $80 bottle could be confused for the $20 bottle? Also, who is your audience? What do they like? How knowledgeable are they about wine?

I’m fairly certain no wine I love for $20 is going to be confused for Caymus. In a blind tasting the bigger wine often wins; sweetness and oak make a wine “stand out.” I’d guess this is particularly true for less experienced tasters. Caymus and Mollydooker are both sweet, alcoholic, wines that taste manufactured, so maybe it really isn’t the worst idea if you’re looking to sow confusion. There are a lot of Spanish and Southern French wines at that price point that garner big scores from Parker, Dunnuck and others, and they might be ideal in that situation. Unfortunately I can’t remember any of these wines by name. There was a thread not that long ago titled something like “the best $15 wine” or something like that, about exactly this kind of wine - modern, plush, intense, and I’m wanting to say the subject wine was from the Languedoc. Other areas for consideration include Toro or Ribera del Duero. You might also have luck with something like Gigondas, which can be big and fruit forward but might seem to have added complexity.

I’d rather drink many of the wines that have been mentioned, including Tuscans and Rioja, and would surely consider them better wines, but they are less likely to play the disrupter in a blind tasting. My guess is that they would be noticeably old world when compared to California cabernets.

[Hank_Victor]

I’m not sure I fully understand the goal. Do you really want people’s impression of the best $20 bottle? Do you want the $20 bottle people find most likely to be confused for an $80 or $200 bottle? Are you also asking for advice on which $80 bottle could be confused for the $20 bottle? Also, who is your audience? What do they like? How knowledgeable are they about wine?

I’m fairly certain no wine I love for $20 is going to be confused for Caymus. In a blind tasting the bigger wine often wins; sweetness and oak make a wine “stand out.” I’d guess this is particularly true for less experienced tasters. Caymus and Mollydooker are both sweet, alcoholic, wines that taste manufactured, so maybe it really isn’t the worst idea if you’re looking to sow confusion. There are a lot of Spanish and Southern French wines at that price point that garner big scores from Parker, Dunnuck and others, and they might be ideal in that situation. Unfortunately I can’t remember any of these wines by name. There was a thread not that long ago titled something like “the best $15 wine” or something like that, about exactly this kind of wine - modern, plush, intense, and I’m wanting to say the subject wine was from the Languedoc. Other areas for consideration include Toro or Ribera del Duero. You might also have luck with something like Gigondas, which can be big and fruit forward but might seem to have added complexity.

I’d rather drink many of the wines that have been mentioned, including Tuscans and Rioja, and would surely consider them better wines, but they are less likely to play the disrupter in a blind tasting. My guess is that they would be noticeably old world when compared to California cabernets.

Juan Gil Silver Label is under $15 and would fit this bill

100% Monastrel - full bodied, jammy, and close to 16% ABV

[Douglas_Breen]

I’ve been a big fan of Textbook Merlot Napa. 2015-2017 have all been wonderful. Just bought a few 2017’s at Costco for $17.95.

[Josh_Grossman]

I’ve never had a good $20 cab. With $35 and a sale, I can think of some good ones.

I’d lover to hear what $35 would get. Thanks!

I’m confident that this would beat Caymus in a blind tasting:
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/kenefick%20ranch%20cabernet%20sauvignon%20chris’s%20cuvee/2014/usa/usd

[Mattstolz]

best Ive had recently is Bedrock North Coast Syrah.

every once in a while I’ve run into older wind gap wines at less than $20.

another solid bet is a produttori Langhe Nebbiolo

[J_Singleton]

I really enjoy Au Bon Climat Santa Barbara County pinot noir for $20. Its a great wine to open with non-geek friends without sacrificing the enjoyment.

[Mike_R1]

As somebody who drinks Cali reds quite often (probably too much), I already kind of have an issue with the Ridge and Caymus as your first two picks. Both are quality producers, but made in a much different style (and from different regions). I think a much more fair comparison would be to grab Caymus Special Selection, Caymus Cabernet and Conundrum Red, for instance. Those roughly hit your price points…

Lots of Napa producers have first and second labels that will fall into your first two price points at ~200 and ~80 bucks … once you’ve picked those, I’d come back here and ask for a $20-35 wine that’s made in a similar style and with high QPR. I think that will likely be the most illuminating set up if you’re trying to have a QPR discussion with your friends.

Sounds fun, either way, though …

I think you are exactly right, and the tasting you mention is interesting, and would highlight the differences in quality at various price points. But frankly this is a bet. I am betting that the correlation between price and enjoyment is not as strong as they suggest it is. They think they can easily blind the three and rank them in price order. The Ridge is the pick simply because I have one open already (via Coravin) and I am doing the tasting this weekend.

I did settle into a 2010 Rioja that I picked up for about 20 bucks. I will update everyone on how the tasting goes!

[Mike_R1]

I’m not sure I fully understand the goal. Do you really want people’s impression of the best $20 bottle? Do you want the $20 bottle people find most likely to be confused for an $80 or $200 bottle? Are you also asking for advice on which $80 bottle could be confused for the $20 bottle? Also, who is your audience? What do they like? How knowledgeable are they about wine?

I’m fairly certain no wine I love for $20 is going to be confused for Caymus. In a blind tasting the bigger wine often wins; sweetness and oak make a wine “stand out.” I’d guess this is particularly true for less experienced tasters. Caymus and Mollydooker are both sweet, alcoholic, wines that taste manufactured, so maybe it really isn’t the worst idea if you’re looking to sow confusion. There are a lot of Spanish and Southern French wines at that price point that garner big scores from Parker, Dunnuck and others, and they might be ideal in that situation. Unfortunately I can’t remember any of these wines by name. There was a thread not that long ago titled something like “the best $15 wine” or something like that, about exactly this kind of wine - modern, plush, intense, and I’m wanting to say the subject wine was from the Languedoc. Other areas for consideration include Toro or Ribera del Duero. You might also have luck with something like Gigondas, which can be big and fruit forward but might seem to have added complexity.

I’d rather drink many of the wines that have been mentioned, including Tuscans and Rioja, and would surely consider them better wines, but they are less likely to play the disrupter in a blind tasting. My guess is that they would be noticeably old world when compared to California cabernets.

Definitely a fair question. I suppose the bold above is the point I am most trying to prove. These guys are intermediate wine drinkers who tend to love big bold reds like Caymus. My guess is they are going to rank the Caymus one, the Ridge 3, and I’m hoping the $20 dollar bottle gets ranked #2.

[Nathan_Smyth]

2011 Ridge Monte Bello… Caymus… Mollydooker The Boxer

My guess is they are going to rank the Caymus one, the Ridge 3, and I’m hoping the $20 dollar bottle gets ranked #2.

The Boxer is a Shiraz, and it will just blow a Ridge & a Caymus right out of the water.

It looks like the Maitre D’ Cabernet Sauvignon is available for about $24.99:

https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/maitre+mollydooker

But if you want to keep it in the United States, then go with the Treana Cabernet [by the Austin Hope family]:

https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/treana+cabernet

PS: I can’t imagine spending $200 on a red wine from Ridge - you coulda gotten some really nice juice with that kinda loot.

And I wouldn’t spend a wooden nickel on a Caymus.

[Randy_Bowman]

Luli Santa Lucia Highlands Pinot Noir. If dessert wines are included, Penfold’s Club Port at $15-20.

[Mike_R1]

2011 Ridge Monte Bello… Caymus… Mollydooker The Boxer

My guess is they are going to rank the Caymus one, the Ridge 3, and I’m hoping the $20 dollar bottle gets ranked #2.

The Boxer is a Shiraz, and it will just blow a Ridge & a Caymus right out of the water.

It looks like the Maitre D’ Cabernet Sauvignon is available for about $24.99:

Where to buy Mollydooker The Maitre D Cabernet Sauvignon, McLaren Vale | prices & local stores in USA

But if you want to keep it in the United States, then go with the Treana Cabernet [by the Austin Hope family]:

Where to buy Treana Cabernet Sauvignon, Paso Robles | prices & local stores in USA

PS: I can’t imagine spending $200 on a red wine from Ridge - you coulda gotten some really nice juice with that kinda loot.

And I wouldn’t spend a wooden nickel on a Caymus.

Agree that Caymus is terrible. I also think that it tastes more like a Shiraz than a Cab given the huge dose of Mega Purple the Wagners load it up with. I bought this bottle when I was first getting into wine, and had a taste for such types of wine. No longer a fan at all.

Ridge MB is a good wine, and I enjoy it quite a bit.

[Mike_J_ewesson]

Agree that Daou cab would be a good choice for this tasting. It’s a crowd pleaser.

[Eric_S_n_y_d_e_r]

Anything from Hobo Wines / Folk Machine

[Eric_Ifune]

Quinta do Sobral. Reserva tinto and Encruzado.

[John_L_Hall]

I used to exclusively drink Cali wines, mostly cab. The Vina Ardanza stuff was a gateway into European wines - which I now typically prefer to CA stuff especially at the sub-$30 price point.

I’d also try some Chianti wines in the 2016 vintage.

Loire valley reds if you like cab franc.

[ToddFrench]

2014 Chateau Lanessan, Haut-Medoc

Almost any good vintage of Domaine Baudry Les Granges. Check out 2014, 15, 16 and 18.

Damn, beat me to it. Wasn’t going vintage-specific but Lanessan is tough to beat.

Would add Capbern and Cantermerle to the list, as well as many bottles of Beaujolais, and just about any red from Spain that isn’t Muga or Vega Sicilia

[Mattstolz]

I’m not sure I fully understand the goal. Do you really want people’s impression of the best $20 bottle? Do you want the $20 bottle people find most likely to be confused for an $80 or $200 bottle? Are you also asking for advice on which $80 bottle could be confused for the $20 bottle? Also, who is your audience? What do they like? How knowledgeable are they about wine?

I’m fairly certain no wine I love for $20 is going to be confused for Caymus. In a blind tasting the bigger wine often wins; sweetness and oak make a wine “stand out.” I’d guess this is particularly true for less experienced tasters. Caymus and Mollydooker are both sweet, alcoholic, wines that taste manufactured, so maybe it really isn’t the worst idea if you’re looking to sow confusion. There are a lot of Spanish and Southern French wines at that price point that garner big scores from Parker, Dunnuck and others, and they might be ideal in that situation. Unfortunately I can’t remember any of these wines by name. There was a thread not that long ago titled something like “the best $15 wine” or something like that, about exactly this kind of wine - modern, plush, intense, and I’m wanting to say the subject wine was from the Languedoc. Other areas for consideration include Toro or Ribera del Duero. You might also have luck with something like Gigondas, which can be big and fruit forward but might seem to have added complexity.

I’d rather drink many of the wines that have been mentioned, including Tuscans and Rioja, and would surely consider them better wines, but they are less likely to play the disrupter in a blind tasting. My guess is that they would be noticeably old world when compared to California cabernets.

Definitely a fair question. I suppose the bold above is the point I am most trying to prove. These guys are intermediate wine drinkers who tend to love big bold reds like Caymus. My guess is they are going to rank the Caymus one, the Ridge 3, and I’m hoping the $20 dollar bottle gets ranked #2.

if that’s your expectation, i suggest you just send the MB to me instead. it’ll be much more appreciated that way.

[Wes_Barton]

I’m not sure I fully understand the goal. Do you really want people’s impression of the best $20 bottle? Do you want the $20 bottle people find most likely to be confused for an $80 or $200 bottle? Are you also asking for advice on which $80 bottle could be confused for the $20 bottle? Also, who is your audience? What do they like? How knowledgeable are they about wine?

I’m fairly certain no wine I love for $20 is going to be confused for Caymus. In a blind tasting the bigger wine often wins; sweetness and oak make a wine “stand out.” I’d guess this is particularly true for less experienced tasters. Caymus and Mollydooker are both sweet, alcoholic, wines that taste manufactured, so maybe it really isn’t the worst idea if you’re looking to sow confusion. There are a lot of Spanish and Southern French wines at that price point that garner big scores from Parker, Dunnuck and others, and they might be ideal in that situation. Unfortunately I can’t remember any of these wines by name. There was a thread not that long ago titled something like “the best $15 wine” or something like that, about exactly this kind of wine - modern, plush, intense, and I’m wanting to say the subject wine was from the Languedoc. Other areas for consideration include Toro or Ribera del Duero. You might also have luck with something like Gigondas, which can be big and fruit forward but might seem to have added complexity.

I’d rather drink many of the wines that have been mentioned, including Tuscans and Rioja, and would surely consider them better wines, but they are less likely to play the disrupter in a blind tasting. My guess is that they would be noticeably old world when compared to California cabernets.

Definitely a fair question. I suppose the bold above is the point I am most trying to prove. These guys are intermediate wine drinkers who tend to love big bold reds like Caymus. My guess is they are going to rank the Caymus one, the Ridge 3, and I’m hoping the $20 dollar bottle gets ranked #2.

If that’s their preference, I’d go with my suggestion above and compare it against a couple solid low-end wines of the same style and type. Is the Caymus better? If so, is it better enough that it’s worth the price?

If the tasting is fun, you can always do another. Others may have suggestions. Things you observe during tastings may inspire further themes to explore. There are a lot of non-Cab suggestions above for quality lower priced wines that could guide future themes.

[K_Tran1]

Maybe give those guys some credit. Even if they like Caymus, they should recognize MB is several league above. A while back, I had my first MB and nearly fell off the chair. At the time, I did enjoy Caymus from time to time.