What's the smallest production cuvée in Burgundy?

Peter_Chiu · February 20, 2020, 12:59pm

This - and Musigny by Faiveley before they purchased Doufuleur … they also had only a half pièce … I remember a back label indicated No.142 of 148 bottles.

But the Musigny holding (below the road) of Christian Confuron was still smaller: 0.076 ha … and is now owned by Domaine Tawse,
and an even smaller plot of 0.015 ha belonged to Domaine Monthelie-Douhairet-Porcheret, but is now owned also by Tawse.

So I think the Domaine Monthelie-Douhairet-Porcheret-parcel of Musigny WAS the smallest cuvée yielding only about 50 bottles (Duroché had 0,019 ha and about 80 bottles, right?), but that has changed now … Tawse has now 0.091 ha …

Oh yes, there are a lot of smaller barrels, not only 1/2 but 1/3 or 1/4 … or even very special sizes … these are necessary when a havest yields less than (let´s say) two but more than (let´s say) one barrel … (usually used for Grand Crus, not for simpler Village wines) …
I have seen several in different cellars, all have special names (which I have forgotten), but a half barrel is called “feuillette”, but can have between 112 and 132 liter capacity … according to a winemaker …

Porcheret plot was acquired by Tawse in 2014. 156sqm
you can certainly find here and there some guys claiming they produce less than 100 bottles. But who cares. What matters is terroir and musigny is the at the apex of burgundy wines. Taupenot merme Lambrays looks like a coquetry

Dude,
Actually it is the subject of the thread.

Yes - he started the thread and I love it…

Gerhard_P · February 20, 2020, 1:33pm

The Musigny plots below the road are certainly not the very best among the vineyard, I’ ve tasted both before sale to Tawse … not really GC-level …
BTW also Taupenots CdLambrays (tasted only once) wasn’t mind-opening …

Peter_Chiu · February 20, 2020, 2:42pm

SAQ ( in Quebec, Canada ) used to carry Taupenots CdLambrays and quite pricey…

William_Kelley · February 20, 2020, 2:52pm

In both cases we are in a sense dealing with “technicalities”, in that the Taupenot parcel of Clos des Lambrays is a former vegetable garden that happened to be included within the grand cru boundaries, and was subsequently planted to vines; and the piece of Musigny in question is, as Gerhard says, below the road and might be more accurately considered a terrace at the top of Les Petits Vougeots than Musigny-proper, though when the boundaries were drawn it happened to fall within the latter. So, I don’t think either can be considered the apex of anything if we are being purists.

Gerhard_P · February 20, 2020, 3:39pm

What matters is terroir and musigny is the at the apex of burgundy wines. Taupenot merme Lambrays looks like a coquetry

The Musigny plots below the road are certainly not the very best among the vineyard, I’ ve tasted both before sale to Tawse … not really GC-level …
BTW also Taupenots CdLambrays (tasted only once) wasn’t mind-opening …

In both cases we are in a sense dealing with “technicalities”, in that the Taupenot parcel of Clos des Lambrays is a former vegetable garden that happened to be included within the grand cru boundaries, and was subsequently planted to vines; and the piece of Musigny in question is, as Gerhard says, below the road and might be more accurately considered a terrace at the top of Les Petits Vougeots than Musigny-proper, though when the boundaries were drawn it happened to fall within the latter. So, I don’t think either can be considered the apex of anything if we are being purists.

Afaic there are two further Musigny parcels below the road - one is actually just across the wall and rather unplantable, steep and stoney, “hanging” over Petits Vougeots (belonging to Bertagna?) but obviously inside the Musigny AC - and a 2nd very small triangular one (property of de Vogüé) close to the Chateau de Vougeot, unplanted and used as parkings space by the Vogüé staff … or by tourists stopping to shoot photos or taking a walk. Also not worth planting …
According to Matt Kramer there should also be another tiny parcel in the North close to Les Borniques (0.0051 ha), belonging to Bernard Clair with bushes and rocks, obviously also unplantable.

See: Weinlagen

Glen_Gold · February 20, 2020, 4:08pm

The Musigny plots below the road are certainly not the very best among the vineyard, I’ ve tasted both before sale to Tawse … not really GC-level …
BTW also Taupenots CdLambrays (tasted only once) wasn’t mind-opening …

In both cases we are in a sense dealing with “technicalities”, in that the Taupenot parcel of Clos des Lambrays is a former vegetable garden that happened to be included within the grand cru boundaries, and was subsequently planted to vines; and the piece of Musigny in question is, as Gerhard says, below the road and might be more accurately considered a terrace at the top of Les Petits Vougeots than Musigny-proper, though when the boundaries were drawn it happened to fall within the latter. So, I don’t think either can be considered the apex of anything if we are being purists.

Afaic there are two further Musigny parcels below the road - one is actually just across the wall and rather unplantable, steep and stoney, “hanging” over Petits Vougeots (belonging to Bertagna?) but obviously inside the Musigny AC - and a 2nd very small triangular one (property of de Vogüé) close to the Chateau de Vougeot, unplanted and used as parkings space by the Vogüé staff … or by tourists stopping to shoot photos or taking a walk. Also not worth planting …
According to Matt Kramer there should also be another tiny parcel in the North close to Les Borniques (0.0051 ha), belonging to Bernard Clair with bushes and rocks, obviously also unplantable.

See: Weinlagen

That’s a cool map. Couldn’t find Clos des Rosiers’ parcel on there, but as long as we’re talking small plots that have a hint of Clos des Lambrays…

William_Kelley · February 20, 2020, 5:17pm

You can see the cadastral map here: https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/carte?c=4.954644255508424,47.177552612901906&z=18&l0=ORTHOIMAGERY.ORTHOPHOTOS::GEOPORTAIL:OGC:WMTS(1)&l1=CADASTRALPARCELS.PARCELS::GEOPORTAIL:OGC:WMTS(1)&permalink=yes

Gerhard_P · February 20, 2020, 5:33pm

Clos des Rosiers - of Chantal Remy- is in Morey-St-Denis, right behind the house of Chantal … and below Clos des Lambrays/Meix Rentiers …
in most maps it´s simply indicated as “Le Village”. Yes, it seems to be missing in “Weinlagen” …

BTW: once I´ve been told that also Domaine Gerard Raphet has a tiny spot in his backyard/garden (whatever) that would be entitled to the Clos des Lambray Appellation … but it´s unplanted and either a garden or covered with concrete … no plan to change that …

Jay_Miller · February 20, 2020, 5:42pm

Is it any better now? The one bottle of Christian Confuron Musigny I tried was execrable. The story I heard was that they tore up a parking lot to plant the vines.

Emmanuel_Menger · February 20, 2020, 8:16pm

This - and Musigny by Faiveley before they purchased Doufuleur … they also had only a half pièce … I remember a back label indicated No.142 of 148 bottles.

But the Musigny holding (below the road) of Christian Confuron was still smaller: 0.076 ha … and is now owned by Domaine Tawse,
and an even smaller plot of 0.015 ha belonged to Domaine Monthelie-Douhairet-Porcheret, but is now owned also by Tawse.

So I think the Domaine Monthelie-Douhairet-Porcheret-parcel of Musigny WAS the smallest cuvée yielding only about 50 bottles (Duroché had 0,019 ha and about 80 bottles, right?), but that has changed now … Tawse has now 0.091 ha …

Oh yes, there are a lot of smaller barrels, not only 1/2 but 1/3 or 1/4 … or even very special sizes … these are necessary when a havest yields less than (let´s say) two but more than (let´s say) one barrel … (usually used for Grand Crus, not for simpler Village wines) …
I have seen several in different cellars, all have special names (which I have forgotten), but a half barrel is called “feuillette”, but can have between 112 and 132 liter capacity … according to a winemaker …

Porcheret plot was acquired by Tawse in 2014. 156sqm
you can certainly find here and there some guys claiming they produce less than 100 bottles. But who cares. What matters is terroir and musigny is the at the apex of burgundy wines. Taupenot merme Lambrays looks like a coquetry

Dude,
Actually it is the subject of the thread.

Then i deeply apologize dude: i thought you were interested in rare but great wines. Not oddities. If you like the super rare wines, try to grab some van berg wines. It will cost you a fortune but I dont guarantee you a great moment…

Emmanuel_Menger · February 20, 2020, 8:21pm

It remains a true and persistant underdog

Emmanuel_Menger · February 20, 2020, 8:28pm

You’re right with regards to tawse musigny.
I have seen that tawse already sold musigny back to 2011, probably through agreement with producers.
i dont know if their musigny today is only coming from the plot they bought or if they blend it with some other grapes. 2018 quantity (matured in a 380l barrel according to vinous) seems a bit high for a plot of this size

Brady_Daniels · February 20, 2020, 10:18pm

This looks awesome too! I played with it for a few minutes and couldn’t find a key linking owner number to owner name. Tell me I was silly and overlooked the obvious.

Thanks.

William_Kelley · February 20, 2020, 10:34pm

Sadly there is no such thing. If you are a registered architect you can write in and find out, but the information has not been publicly accessible for 30 years or so. So it is a question of piecing things together.

Brady_Daniels · February 20, 2020, 11:08pm

Thanks, William. I was quite excited, but now a bit deflated. Ah well.

Gus_Siokis · February 21, 2020, 1:16am

Snapped a few pics last summer while visiting …of the area in question

William_Kelley · February 21, 2020, 3:56am

You’ll have to wait until my book comes out…! (Not for a while)

But one thing I’d like to do this year, if time permits, is take some photos of different producers’ vines in the same appellation throughout the year so folks can see the differences. Could be quite insightful.

Karl_K · February 21, 2020, 4:07am

Great idea!

Gerhard_P · February 21, 2020, 9:23am

The pics of Gus (especially the 1st one) show clearly the triangular parking spot entitled to Musigny AC …
the vines are the ex-Christian Confuron (now Tawse)

Dave_English · February 21, 2020, 10:34am

Bugger, didn’t get a pic of the back label to confirm. This was 102.