I have only once compared the two bottlings, in the 1999 vintage, but at least in this case the wines have very little in common and the Drouhin is infinitely finer, for what reasons I do not know.
Storage after bottling?
It’s certainly not impossible but both bottles seemed to me to offer the characteristics one expects from the respective producers. The MSD Clos Sorbes that Jouan sells to Drouhin can differ very considerably too.
Domaine des Forges also made a Clos St. Denis, at least in the 1990s. Is anyone familiar with this rendering?
If it’s not storage it must simply be bottling practices. Jouan uses François Frères “Drouhin toast” barrels for his all his wines, and the vinification and élevage are identical up until the time when the barrels leave for Drouhin. Until not too long ago, Jouan used to bottle barrel-by-barrel with the “chèvre a deux becs”, a device I guess best translated as two-headed spigot, but I’m not sure exactly when they switched to a bottling line.
Can something simple as bottling make wines taste completely different?
Barrel by barrel bottling can lead to increased variability as no two barrels are completely alike. Modern bottling lines also use inert gases to limit oxygen ingress, but I think I’m less concerned about that than having uncertainty about the wine in the bottle.
Potentially, yes. If one wine is fined and filtered, the other not; or if one wine stays in barrel a few months longer than the other; or a myriad of factors. I couldn’t say as to Jouan vs Drouhin Clos Saint-Denis, but it’s certainly possible. However, the raw materials in the two bottlings should be very much the same.
And the 88 is one of the most delicious bottles of wine I’ve ever drunk.
Why do people constantly put fining and filtering together as if they are always tied, and are similar in their effects?
Always felt the Drouhin MSD 1er Sorbe and CSD to be below the level of their other cuvees, e.g. Griottes, Chambolle 1er Amoureuses, etc.
Funny, I’ve never popped one, but did just receive some '16s just last week. Drank a MSD over Christmas and thought it was really lovely…
The 85 and 88 CSD from Dujac are two of my all time favorite red burgs.
Dujac and Jouan are the only producers of CSD that I feel are “must haves” in the cellar.
Leroux is enjoyable as well.
In the interests of research (and drinking excellent wine), my wine group tasted the 2005 Drouhin and Jouan Clos Saint-Denis side by side last night (and myriad other wines in our huge offline of the year). Both were excellent wines, but they were quite different. The Drouhin had a much more polished feel to it. My smooth and silky going down. A Bordeaux lover in our group really preferred this wine. The Jouan was probably a more natural, untouched character to it, not as smooth and silky but more flavorful and probably with a little more going on with regard to it. A friend who is a very much a Burgundy lover much preferred the Jouan, but then it is rare that he likes wines from the bigger houses in Burgundy. To me, the wines were more comparable but different. Overall, I thought the wines were drinking pretty well for 2005s (so many 2005s are still wound up in themselves) but the wines are still somewhat primary and need more time. We may redo this comparison in five years or so.
The third wine of the flight was a 2002 Dujac Clos Saint-Denis, which was outstanding. A bit more mature than the Jouan or the Drouhin.
Good data point at this current time. So both are good in their own ways and depending on your preference one can be better than other.
Maybe NYC offline should set something up for Drouhin and Jouan CSD.
William,
My sense was that the Drouhin was filtered but the Jouan was not. I have not knowledge if this was the case, but a light filtration on the Drouhin could explain some of the differences in character of the two wines.
Really interesting, thank you for reporting back!
Seems very plausible, but of course purely speculation on our part. I will try to remember to ask next time I visit.
Thanks. I agree that it is pure speculation and I have no idea how much I was influenced by what I tasted and how much by the power of suggestion having read this thread. But, a number of people at the dinner agreed with the differences in character of the two wines.
Slightly veering, but since it was listed here, what do people think of upper level Georges Lignier wines…Clos St. Denis, Clos de la Roche, Bonnes Mares, Charmes-Chambertin? I have never had any GL wines.