When do you think the trend will flip back from Burg to Bordeaux again?

Sounds like you want to debate the premise of the question, rather than answer it :sweat_smile:

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Well, we may not have any Rousseau in the cellar, but at least we’re not boomers.

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I see what you’re trying to say. I’ve tasted several examples in Bordeaux from single varietals to old vine cuvĆ©es and while some are remarkable, most are lesser wines that do not represent the vineyard.

Though 2009 Clinet Speciosa Seposito is one of the best wines I’ve ever tasted and could be the wine of the vintage. Details in the note

Glossy motor oil!?! I’m out, lol.

I’m still waiting for you to source me some of that hundred percent old vine Cabernet Franc from Trotevieille!

Oh no, you’d have a heart attack tasting it. Sadly, they don’t sell the old vine Cab Franc bottling.

FWIW, I’ve tasted more single variety cuvĆ©es from 2020 than ever before. I think I’ve updated all the grape variety pages listing those producers. You should check out the CF, PV and Malbec pages as you would like several of them.

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And I should note that I am not in favor of micro-parcel Bordeaux. I have been drinking Bordeaux for almost 30 years now, and love the expressions from different locations.

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I’ve been thinking about this recently too, and at its core, terroir is just good branding. Certainly if the same producer follows the same farming and winemaking practices for all of their wines, you can taste a difference based on the vineyard since that should be the only difference. Winemaking is entirely an intervention on the grapes, so doesn’t making wine obscure the terroir of what the grapes would taste like fresh? Nothing is ā€œcorrectā€ since its all the winemakers interpretation of what they think is best, in the same way different conductors or band leaders might have a composition or song played.

To me, saying a wine is a good expression of its terroir boils down to whether people like it or not, and is an easy way to intellectualize why they like it (as though getting joy from it isnt enough).

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Only if you look at it in terms of dollars and cents. There’s plenty of wine to be purchased now; it just costs more. And it costs a lot more this year than it did a couple of years ago. But that’s kind of the case across the board and is not surprising considering recent fiscal activity.

There’s always a better time than now to have bought and generally now is still a better time than at some point in the future.

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I’ve given this quote some thought, and I’m not sure this will prove to be the consensus over time.

We consider ourselves lucky to be buying in Burgundy’s golden era, when quality was high, but prices still sane, say 1999-2017. We (not pointing at Howard here) think the wines that came before were better priced, but much less consistent, and very susceptible to truly bad vintages. Yet these earlier wines were still treasured, and considered by some to be the finest in the world.

Why can’t the same happen again, combining climate change, modern viticulture, and wine making? Suddenly the wines of the Hautes Cotes, the Macon, and other areas of Burgundy have optimal growing conditions and are being made really well, and constitute part of a platinum age.

Perhaps our glorious 2010 burgs will be considered a bit underripe by wine lovers holding 2019 as a highlight?

Perhaps Rousseau will still be unobtanium, but there will be far more great burgundy made than ever before? And wine lovers will laugh at the old-timers for putting producer at the top of the buying-decision hierarchy.

I am especially not at all confident about this part. Just as I prefer 2002 village Dujac to any 1997 grand cru Dujac, I suspect future burgundy lovers will laugh at my thinking recent vintages are overripe, and prefer their 2019 village to my 2017 grand cru.

I hope we all get to enjoy burgundy, in just the way that Mother Nature intends us to.

I think this post might be just a bit off-topic, but reading the above, so many others are, too. It’s been a fun thread.

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To spare William attempting to answer that from France, I’ve been going down that rabbit hole and so far the answer is…maybe? Their website says for those of us in the USA to call The Rare Wine Co about the app, which sounds both unlikely and Italian as an answer: enogea Ā» Product Categories Ā» iPhone App

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I agree with everything you write, yet there is always that surprise element in Burgundy where one does not have to spend much money. I find sometimes you can get a Burgundy for say under 50 € and it hits all the right notes and transcends just good, does not happen often but it does happen. Last week we had a Aloxe Corton Les BoutiĆØres 2020 from Celine Perrin. I was not really expecting much but somehow that wine just hit all the right notes. The second bottle may not have the same effect but those are the moments which make me despite so many good ,but not exciting bottles not want t give up on Burgundy.

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Yes. Seems that it has only become worse.

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I’m not sure about 1%, but you could effectively try this by sampling any Bordeaux producers’ ā€œbest barrel.ā€ They usually have a lot of them!

The estates reserve those 99 pt barrels for those with cravats

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I’m nowhere near as experienced as so many of you (and I love this thread, by the way!), but your post really hit home. I have been a ā€œBordeaux guyā€ since my early 20s and only recently started adding Burgundy to my cellar. I just hadn’t really thought of expanding there in the past. The pricing certainly is scary, but I had a $50 2019 Pierre Guillemot SerpentiĆØres back in November that continues to stick with me. I still think to myself, ā€œIf this is what Burgundy can do, why did I stick to only Bordeaux for so long?!ā€

My point, I suppose, is that I feel confident that with some reading and learning (not to mention tasting), I can find great producers making interesting, satisfying wines that won’t explode my budget. Have I missed the good old days? Maybe, sure. But since I can’t change that fact now I’m just focusing on what I can control in the present. And I’m excited about that! Call it Burgundy mindfulness. :person_in_lotus_position:

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Guillemot make terrific wines, and not just in the celebrated vintages. Opened a 1997 village Savigny the other day for someone born in 1997 (crazy thought) as it was the only bottle of that year I could readily lay hands on, and it was terrific.

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Agree. Even though the tide has risen across Burgundy, there are far fewer ā€œaffordableā€ great bottles. There are far more affordable good bottles. For me, Burgundy > Bordeaux, but $100 Bordeaux >> $100 (or $200) Burgundy. YMMV. That (or maybe climate change) would be why the trend could flip. Burgundy will still produce the greatest of great wine, but that’s not necessarily the most central question when considering trends.

I think the interest in Burgundy arises not only from terroir but also dynamism. In Burgundy there is always a new producer, whose wines can be had for a relative bargain, who just might turn into the next superstar. I can think of a handful of new producers I’m excited about but have never tried. There’s also the old guard trying out new vineyards and cuvees. There’s real excitement in the Macon and Cote Chalonnaise and cool stuff in often-overlooked areas like Cote de Nuits Villages.

Bordeaux, by contrast, is very much a victim of the 1855 classification. With some exceptions, the hierarchy is pretty well established. If you want to drink the best, you have to pay for it; there usually isn’t a new guy to find. It makes things a little less exciting. I’ve tried wines from most of the major Bordeaux Chateau. I can’t think of any Bordeaux producer I want to try but haven’t. Of course, there are always new vintages. And new winemakers. Etc. But the feeling of discovery isn’t quite the same. The hunt isn’t as satisfying

None of this, of course, has anything to do with how the wines taste. Bordeaux can obviously be fabulously great, and the region has an unparalleled track record. And I think the reality is that there is more dynamism than is apparent on the surface. The Bordelaise could probably just do a better job highlighting it.

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Jeff,

Could you be more specific? What are say five producers of Medocs from smaller houses that are among your favorites? I have a hard time understanding and evaluating generalities.

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Boy are you jealous of boomers.

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