Which Champagne are you drinking?

Big thanks to @Frank_Murray_III for organizing and hosting the 2012 champagne event. I learned so much, and this tasting will save me a lot of money :rofl: :sweat_smile:

As a disclaimer to the following notes, I have been in a bit of a funk recently, so my state of mind (and taste) is off, which is likely manifesting itself in lower evaluations. Also, there was a lot of BdB and I am a broken record saying that they are not my favorite. So, take your entire box of salt and pour that over the rest of this post.

I have seen the 2012 champagne vintage labelled as “legendary,” (ETA: link) and I don’t get it. It’s a very good vintage, but “legendary”? I must be drinking the wrong champagne (including those beyond this tasting) :crazy_face:… If I had to draw some similarity for what’s in the bottle, 2012 reminds me of “almost” 2009. It’s entirely possible that the 2012 champagnes are too young and will develop into something extraordinary in the future, but I don’t have a crystal ball or sufficient experience with champagne evolution post-disgorgement. In any case, I like 2008 way more than 2012; granted those champagnes are more integrated at the moment.

Onto the tasting notes:

2012 CHAMPAGNES - (6/8/2024)

  • 2012 Dom Pérignon Champagne - France, Champagne
    Blind. Sulfur, yeasty nose that points to a grande marque. Sweet lemon, lots of oak, and a sort of marzipan like effect on the finish. Seemed a bit shut down to me at the time, but it should blossom with age. Not opening my bottle for a few (perhaps many) more years. Edited to add: Hopefully it shows better with time and earns its pricepoint...
  • 2012 Delamotte Champagne Blanc de Blancs Millésimé - France, Champagne
    Two of these in the blind line up: #2 & #7.
    Did not spot these as the same. Upon revisit I also thought they were still pretty different, though #7 was warmer in temp.
    #2 was purchased upon release and stored since then. It came across as very bdb, lemon finish and had a nice minerality. The #7 came across as more yeasty, brioche-y, and somewhat honeyed with yellow apple with some oak on the finish. #7 came across as grande marque more so than #2, which could have gone either way. I preferred #2. Don't serve this too warm. I'm bookmarking this to recommend to my father, who adores BdB and strongly prefers Grande Marques.
  • NV Krug Champagne Brut Grande Cuvée Édition 168ème - France, Champagne
    Blind. It had an odd "green," vegetal, rosemary stem thing going on the nose for me, which vaguely reminded me of a 2017 Nowack we had recently. I did not like the nose and the palate did not redeem itself either. Orange zest, orange pith, raw green pepper, and some odd vanilla-oak thing going on. Bitter on the finish, like pomelo pith. If this description sounds weird, it's because it was and I was struggling with words to describe this and didn't want to taste it all that much. When this was revealed as Krug, I nearly fell of the chair. What in the world??! Maybe it's shut down? I revisited later on and there were more of the orange and vanilla notes, but as a whole, it was disjointed.
  • 2012 Savart Champagne Expression Nature - France, Champagne
    Blind. I was thinking of this as the "sunscreen/piña colada" champagne. 100% PN, no dosage. Disg Jan 2017.
    Tropical nose, with some sweet/cooked pineapple. Coconut, pineapple, passion fruit and guava on the palate, some salinity. Completely dry. This brought a vivid memory of my childhood on the beach of Brazil roasting in the sun with SPF 8 sunscreen (times were different). Unique and well done.
  • 2012 Pierre Gimonnet & Fils Champagne Special Club Grands Terroirs de Chardonnay - France, Champagne
    #5 in the blind line-up. Ripe green apple, sweet lemon, with something like powdered ginger on the finish. Creamy, frothy, quite pleasant. Comes across as a bit richer than the 4g/L dosage. At a good spot right now. Nice rendition of BdB (Cramant, Chouilly and Cuis).
  • 2012 Veuve Fourny & Fils Champagne Premier Cru Cuvée du Clos Notre Dame - France, Champagne, Champagne Premier Cru
    #6 in line-up
    I brought this, so not blind to me. A little while ago, I attended a "Clos champagne tasting" and became curious about clos... despite 8 out of 10 wines in the tasting being unimpressive (or disappointing). I don't understand my own curiosity about them, but so is life. In any case, there are apparently 39 of these walled gardens in champagne. Those that are vinified separately command (or should I say "demand") rather elevated prices.

    3g/L dosage, from a 0.3 ha walled garden in Vertus. 100% Chard, 60 yo vines. 100% in oak, non filtered. 9 years miminum on lees and disgorged 4/2022.
    So tight. Lemon, turmeric on the nose. Palate of acidic lemon curd, green apple, mid palate of more lemon, something saline, and long finish of lemon zest. Very very tight. It was better after a few hours open and near ambient temperature, but this needs time. I have another bottle to revisit in about 5 years.
    On a side note, the current pricing of $200 is laughable.
    Edited to add that the bottle is fat and doesn't fit in standard racking. Storing this fat BdB for 5 more years is not delighting me.

  • 2012 Bérêche et Fils Champagne Premier Cru Le Cran Ludes - France, Champagne, Champagne Premier Cru
    #8 in blind line-up. Golden, darker than anything up until this point. Color reminds me a bit of marguet. Pastry dough on the nose, lemon meringue on the palate, yellow nectarine and a bit of wood on the palate that comes across like nutmeg. Yum. I liked this, but am wary of the color development compared to the other 2012s today. Perhaps it's time to drink up?
  • 2012 Pehu Simonet Champagne Grand Cru Fins Lieux No 6 Verzenay Millésime - France, Champagne, Champagne Grand Cru
    #9 in blind line-up.
    Don't have a lot of notes on this. Sweet lemon, tangerine/mandarin, chalk. Not very complex compared to the rest of the line-up and the finish drops off very quickly.
  • 2012 Larmandier-Bernier Champagne Grand Cru Les Chemins d'Avize - France, Champagne, Champagne Grand Cru
    #10 in blind line-up. Funky nose. Mushroom, a hint of cider? I also wrote "horse" in my notes for the nose, whatever that means. I got lemon, pear lambic, and sweet lime. The oak is evident with nutmeg and cloves. Long finish and pretty concentrated, but unfortunately I didn't like the waft of cider/lambic and the oak expression.
  • 2012 Gosset Champagne Brut Grand Millésime - France, Champagne
    #11 in the blind line-up
    Lots of great palates around the table liked this. I did not, and am clearly in the minority here too :woozy_face:. Granted, it was towards the end of the tasting and my palate was getting fatigued. I thought this was a big house and generic. The dosage stood out and was cloying to me. All I remember is not liking it, so here's a direct transcription of my notes: "Sweet et al. Sweet orange. Sweet lemon. Lemon oil. Creamy sweet lemon curd. No." Apologies for the lackluster notes, as they don't really help describe.
  • 2012 Veuve Clicquot Champagne Brut Rosé Vintage - France, Champagne
    #12 in blind line-up. Was very happy to see a rosé to close out the first "round" of the tasting. I didn't get a ton on the nose besides some yeastiness. On the palate, strawberry and rhubarb, then bitterness takes over. It seemed a bit one dimensional, but perhaps my palate was fatigued. I revisited later and it showed less well at a warmer temp.

There were three more champagnes on which I didn’t write much useful in my notebook, so going by memory:

  • 2012 Guy Charlemagne Champagne Grand Cru Mesnillésime Vieilles Vignes Blanc de Blancs
    Lemon and grapefruit zest with unripe apricot. Came across as a bit austere, but it was sandwiched between the two rosés, so that may account for my impression.
  • 2012 Pol Roger Champagne Rosé:
    Juicy and opulent at the start, but it then turns to a very bitter and distracting finish. Jekyll and Hyde. Did not like.
  • 2012 Vilmart & Cie Champagne Premier Cru Coeur de Cuvée
    This seemed less open and with more pronounced acidity that the one we had back in January. Not sure whether that’s accurate or palate fatigue, or the rosés altering my impression.
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Who’s calling 12 legendary? I think 13 is better nearly across the board (except for maybe salon) and 08 is worlds better (even if it’s not ready atm).

I’m surprised you didn’t like the 168; I’ve had it maybe 2-3 times in the last month or two and it’s shown well. All I want to drink right now is Cedric Bouchard though.

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Alright, I took my own advice and opened some fun stuff this weekend.

2016 Agrapart Venus Brut Nature - BdB 0 g/l. Excellent bottle of wine with a beautiful cool, minerally profile. Nose hits with lemony, oyster shells, crisp pear, and some floral notes. The palate is lemony and stony at first, with bright citrus and good cut, then dramatically unfurls with marcona almonds, salinity and all, then a rich toasty brioche note on the finish that is almost undetectable on first sip. A beautiful bottle that should have a nice lifespan. A fascinating study in zero dosage. I can’t help but wonder if the latent richness would be more pronounced with dosage here, but the interplay between citrus and mineral on one hand, with natural richness on the other is well done, and it’s a winner here.

Krug 169eme - Lemon, apricot, orange blossom, toasty shortbread cookie, spicy finish. Dense, vibrant, and intense. But after having this a half dozen times, and tasting this immediately after the Agrapart Venus, is this carrying too much acid? I’ve always described this as a racy Krug, but the acidity is really pretty pronounced when not being consumed with food. This is dynamite with food, but the acidity was pretty aggressive alone.

Anyone else have that with 169? It’s loaded and exciting, but almost reminiscent of some 96s I’ve had over the past couple of years where the acid outpaced the fruit.

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You had the 169 from a full bottle? I just don’t think it’s ready right now.

Met up with KarlK and his lovely wife for dinner at Park Bruges. Great company and great wine!

Cedric Bouchard VV21

The sixth bottle or so I’ve had in the past 4 months, and this was as good as all the others. Beautiful white peach on the nose, lovely acidity and chalk on the palate with a long finish. Weightless and lithe as usual.

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Maybe Todd can arrange a WB group gift DM of Delamotte as a special thank you for all your work in this thread.

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I borrowed the term “legendary” from wine-searcher, but other vintage review sites rate 2012 champagne very highly, such as Decanter, wine scholar guild, the finest bubbles, all of which rate it as 5 stars out of 5. Robert Parker’s website describes 2012 as “extraordinary,” though it’s rated slightly less high than 2008. Goes to show… :woman_shrugging:
Decanter does have a note about PN being the winner in 2012 compared to Chard, though.

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I think 12 is a good vintage but not really a world beater.

The grand marques are all quite good, although I prefer the 13s in most cases; 12 is a bit more opulent vintage where as 13 is a bit racier and has a bit more cut, like a light version of 08. 12 Salon is a powerhouse, though, just a beast of a champagne that may give 96 a run for its money in time. I’ve generally liked 168 a lot.

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Thank you for investing the time to get this all collected. We got through a good amount of tasting on Saturday, and inferring from your various notes, I don’t think either of us tasted something that we really were wowed by. Probably fortunate for me though is that I’ve got another good size glass of the 2012 Coeur de Cuvee to finish with the hockey game tonight. I wish I would have been more forward thinking to have included that in the lineup, and now thinking about it probably a bottle of the Vilmart Oenotheque T13 wouldn’t have been a bad idea either. The T13 is 2012 base as much as say the Krug 168 was.

And stay resilient and grateful…you’re a good soul.

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Eh…can you decode your reply. I’m not with it enough to understand it, need some help. Please.

Just a joke about how much you love Delamotte. The appreciation for all your notes here is much appreciated.

Thanks for the decode, Tom. I really do intend for the notes to add value, and thank you.:+1:

I agree, but from a .375, it’s quite nice rn.

Had a virtually identical experience with 169 in March. Decided it wasn’t ready (in 750 form at least). Burying my other bottles for a while.

Moving a little upmarket in the cheap seats this evening, a new producer for me and this thread: Siret Frère et Soeur

The 2018 rosé de saignée extra-brut is an elegant, light wine. Perhaps not enough wow factor for me to justify a price of ~US$73. Others here my like it though.

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From another thread

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Also posted in Wine Talk for those who do not frequent this thread in hope they may do so:

Thanks to Frank Murray, lll, I was extremely grateful to be invited to join some of his usual group of Orange County folks to enjoy a blind tasting of 2012 vintage champagne.

And, thanks to Frank and Jill, we were hosted righteously on their energetically correct back patio.

There were 10 of us in total with 8 more seriously tasting through 12 champagnes while all were feasting on some fine Indian food sourced from the nearby Basanti Indian Cuisine restaurant.

And if 12 champagnes were not enough, Frank and others opened up additional bottles and it was a glorious afternoon and another opportunity to be humbled with a blind tasting format while learning more about our palate preferences and the 2012 vintage.

We poured 2 bottles at a time as most everyone had 2 glasses. Geeky me, had 8 on the table and 4 more in the bag, but I did not pull them out.

The first 2 champagnes were my bring, bagged earlier with my name of it while chilling in the frig, so it was not blind for me, but nonetheless a surprise on how they performed.

Here’s some notes on the first 12 in the order poured:

2012 DOM PERIGNON- blind; I stand corrected in the percent of the blend announced as it is 51% Chardonnay and 49% Pinot Noir and dosed at 4 gpl; I’ve only had a couple of bottles of this and both were much more expressive, but still not ready and this bottle was not ready to give a whole lot; the first taste was so underwhelming and I put it aside and moved on and then came back to it and found more to like, but not enough to even consider opening another bottle for a few years; following its light yellow color came aromas of mild citrus notes, that on the palate translated into lemon and lime that continued all the way through; the most striking think I got was its bracing acidity; it was fairly intense and strongly suggestive of supporting longevity; I kept going back and after an hour, it still was a bit discombobulated and out of balance and yet there was a hint of elegance and forthcoming charm to be enjoyed down the line.

2012 DELAMOTTE BLANC de BLANC MILLESIME BRUT- blind; 60% of the fruit sourced for this comes from les Mesnil-sur-Oger, Ovize and Oger with 20% equal parts from each and the remainder of the fruit coming from Cramant, Chouilly and Oiry; as with previous bottles I’ve had, this one was spectacular, having such an inviting nose of fragrant yellow roses, orchard and stone fruit which on the palate more specifically included lemon, orange, peach, golden delicious apple with mild hints of butter and oak; it had a wondrous creamy mouthfeel which served to enhanced the long, satisfying finish; this is marvelous bubbly now and has all of the structure to be great in the years to come; eventually, it was by my WOTD with the next one coming in a close 2nd.

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NV KRUG 168 eme GRANDE CUVEE BRUT- blind; the ID code is 119001 and we are told it consists of 52% Pinot Noir, 35% Chardonnay and 13% Pinot Meunier with the oldest of the blend coming from 1996 and the youngest from 2012; it received its cork in the winter of 2018-2019; it had a clear yellow color and a nose full of vanilla laced lemon and orange zest with a hint of hazelnut and ginger in the background; it was full on, rich and luscious with an impressive finish where everything came together and held on beautifully; my #2 WOTD.

2012 FREDERIC SAVART EXPRESSION NATURE 1er Cru- blind; 100% Pinot Noir disgorged 2017; sporting a hazy yellow color, this no dosed bubbly offered some serious aromas of ginger and coconut accented, super ripe red apple, citrus and strawberry; it seemed quite advanced initially and yet backed off past mid palate and along with its smooth mouthfeel, glided in for a grand finish and was quite delightful.

2012 PIERRE GIMONET BLANC de BLANC SPECIAL CLUB GRANDS TERROIRS de CHARDONNAY BRUT- blind; the fruit consists of a small blend of the oldest vines in the house where the grape vines are over 40 years old and the 2 oldest were planted in 1911 and 1913; it is made of 60% Cramant Grand Cru, 30% Chouilly Grand Cru 30% and 10% Cuis 1er cru; aged 6 years on the less, disgorged July 2017 and dosed at 4 gpl; yellow color; spritzy and acidic, I got more red fruit notes with mild rose petals in the nose and mild red cherry in the taste with some citrus fruit mixed in; it had a cotton candy like mousse, was very light, easy, mellow and delightful; even with the red fruit notes, it seemed like a mild version of the Delamotte. I suspect my palate is a bit weird on this day and I held off eating until tasting through the initial 12 wines.

2012 VEUVE FOURNY & FILS CUVEE du CLOS NOTRE DAME BRUT 1er Cru- blind; 100% Chardonnay although not indicated on the front label and an Extra Brut, disgorged 4/22 and dosed at 3 gpl; yellow to gold color; I got white pepper and spice accented lemon zest, grapefruit and yellow apple fruit early on when it seemed to be showcasing some power only for it to fade out and arrive at a much more mellow place enhanced by its super soft and smooth mouthfeel.

2012 DELAMOTTE BLANC de BLANC MILLESIME BRUT- blind; a duplicate not detected as it was quite different albeit really good; it did posses the same yellow gold color, but the nose and taste was more citrus, especially lemon and the texture was not as heavy nor creamy as our first bottle; it seemed much more spry and youthful and yet maintained perfect balance while sporting loads of acidity; I made note that it was one of my favs thus far and when revealed, I’m thinking this came from a more recent release whereas the bottle I brought was part of the first release 4 years ago and has constantly displayed a broad spectrum of flavors and amazing power and finesse.

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2012 BERECHE LE CRAN EXTRA BRUT- blind; 50% Chardonnay and Pinot Noir disgorged 7/19 at 3 gpl; gold yellow color; the nose seemed to have advanced notes of super ripe ginger accented stone and orchard fruit which on the palate was identified as apricot, yellow peach, pear and especially yellow apple; as nice and fruity as it was, it’s hallmark for me was its super smooth texture; this is fully loaded and in time, I expect it to mellow, balance out and be sublime and I enjoyed it in this early phase.

2012 PEHU SIMONET FINS LIEUX NO. 6 VERZENAY GRAND CRU- blind; 100% Chardonnay disgorged 12/18 at 2 gpl, therefore, an Extra Brut; clear yellow color; the initial nose turned up some TCA, but then maybe not as it blew off in minutes and did not reappear, but it sure was wet cardboardy; fortunately, some really nice citrus and nectarine pleased immensely with lemon, lime, red apple {yes, even in a BdB} and more stone fruit filled in the taste profile; it was medium in weight and expression and as such, was elegant and charming AND NOT CORKED.

2012 LARMANDIER-BERNIER les CHEMINS d’AVIZE BLANC de BLANC GRAND CRU- blind; although not indicated on the front or back labels, this is an Extra Brut dosed at 3 gpl; the fruit is sourced from a single, old vines 0.7ha plot in Avize that is bio-dynamically farmed; after its yellow color came mild aromas of mineral and chalk accented peach and nectarine with a touch of coconut {here again as with the Savart above, I get coconut in a champagne which I’ve previously gotten in Spanish wines made in American oak and to my knowledge, no Champagne producer uses American Oak. We talked about this}; this was a fruit forward, mildly expressive bubbly that actually was a relief at this point in the tasting as it was so soft and easy on the palate. Although there was no disgorgement date indicated, I’m wondering if it was recently disgorged which could explain why it was so understated and perhaps it expands significantly in a couple of years or more? Maybe it was disgorged with a coconut based liquer- Ha.

2012 GOSSET GRAND MILLESIME BRUT- blind; 67% Chardonnay, 33% Pinot Noir; this was outstanding and one of my favs of the day; it had everything going for it including its nice balance; the most operative word here is elegance as it gently glided over the palate and graced the back end with all of its treasures; yeasty citrus, apple and pear fruit made up much of the fruit profile in this medium to full bodied beauty showcasing some power and more finesse. I’d track this wine over the next few years as I have an idea it will probably gain more richness and fullness.

2012 VEUVE CLICQUOT BRUT ROSE- blind; for those of us who struggled to ID some of the wines, I got this as a rose; yes, it had a rose red color and an inviting nose of rose petals, spicy strawberry and red raspberry before nice fresh red cherry came in on the palate; it was nicely balanced, very lovely and tasty.
This is comprised of 51% Pinot Noir, 34% Chardonnay (34%) and 15% Meunier; it is then elaborated with 13% red still wine, exclusively from the Pinot Noir of Bouzy. Included is an addition of 11% of wines aged in large wooden casks.

At this point, I am ready to eat before re-visiting these first 12 and the additional bottles that were subsequently opened, of which I know of 4 plus a 375 ml dessert wine.

Of the additional wines, I liked them all with a preference for:

2012 VILMART & CIE COEUR de CUVEE BRUT 1er Cru- blind; 80% Chardonnay, 20% Pinot Noir, disgorged 3/19; the color was clear yellow and the nose offered nice notes of green apple, citrus and grapefruit; the taste profile included more of the same plus a hint of buttered brioche and crisp acidity; it was medium to full bodied with a soft and smooth mouthfeel.

2012 GUY CHARLEMAGNE la CUVEE MESNIILLESIME le VIEILLES VIGNES MESNIL sur OGER BLANC de BLANC GRAND CRU EXTRA BRUT- blind; it seems quite youthful with lots of energy and an abundance of grapefruit notes that sung out loud and clear; additionally it gave mineral enhanced honeyed green apple, lemon and lime and as such, was very tasty; it also had an appealing smooth texture and a bright acidic finish; really good now with promises for a brilliant future.
No doubt, on this day and maybe all others, it wins the award for being the longest named bubbly.

There were at least 2 more wines, one a nice, refreshing 2012 rose from Pol Roger and a 375 ml of an intense Sine Qua Non Shackled made from Petit Manseng that could have been served by the dropper full.

What a wondrous occasion this was. Again, I an grateful for the invite and to be able to share the afternoon with righteously good, like minded people.

Cheers,
Blake

@Frank_Murray_III @AstridKG @Cris_Whetstone @Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m @Chris_Seiber @Steve_Nordhoff

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Sorry I couldn’t make it this time. Looks like a great collection of wines and an even better collection of people.

I find this to be a high-acid, lemon bomb that is going to need lots of time. Better to drink the 170 and 171 now.

This weekend started with a Grand Siecle Iteration 25 that was drinking fine. Even the wife commented how nice it was.

I brought a magnum of '09 Cristal to a neighbor’s house another night. I have to admit, I find this vintage boring. I have had it twice from magnum 2 years apart and probably 3 times from 750. It just seems so weak compared to 02/04/08/13.