Why do pro critics think Orin Swift Wines are good?

[Anton_D]

So you literally hate their entire portfolio of wines? They don’t have even one wine you like?

I can safely say that.

[Anton_D]

Maybe one day they find their own rabbit hole and start drinking Burgundy, but for now, at least they are drinking wine. Isn’t that what we really want?

If the Orin Swift crowd starts drinking Burgundy there will be a collective scream of anguish and “how dare they” from the board.

Damned if they do…

Funny enough, the guy who makes them loves Burgundy.

Imagine the cognitive dissonance.

[David_Bu3ker]

If the Orin Swift crowd starts drinking Burgundy there will be a collective scream of anguish and “how dare they” from the board.

Damned if they do…

Funny enough, the guy who makes them loves Burgundy.

Imagine the cognitive dissonance.

Imagine that he has the disposable funds to buy a lot of Burgundy because he makes the OS wines.

[Anton_D]

So we bash the critics, and subsequently the people who drink this stuff since we don’t like it? Despite the fact that they sell thousands and thousands of cases of these wines, and the people who drink it, like it?

Correct. This is the raison d’etre of the board. Otherwise, what are we even doing here?

Sorry to arrive late today, I was over at the Maniacal Gourmands forum pointing out that Outback Steakhouse sells more steaks than Flannery, so they should shut up and not bash the Mecca of USDA Select beef like they do.

[Chris_Seiber]

If the Orin Swift crowd starts drinking Burgundy there will be a collective scream of anguish and “how dare they” from the board.

Damned if they do…

Funny enough, the guy who makes them loves Burgundy.

Imagine the cognitive dissonance.

Doesn’t seem strange at all. Lots of winemakers, including one who make wines beloved here at WB, personally drink different kinds of wines than they make. Lots of us own and work at companies who make products and services we don’t use personally. I worked at LA Fitness six years and worked out the whole time at (what is now) the Equinox.

[Alex_N]

These wines do great in large retail and supermarket displays. The score on the price tag on those displays certainly helps the sell. Maybe the ratings serve better for retailers and somms at steakhouses as mentioned above instead of subscribers and majority on this forum who seek out mostly small boutique stuff. There’s a huge crowd who consider these wines (and prisoner) to be tops and will probably never know (or have much interest) about top 10 mailing and wish list wines here or on CT.

[Albert_R]

I have a friend that loves this stuff. Apparently he has a colleague that is a “wine collector” and turned him on to it…

[Jim_Brennan]

This implies that wine critics rating Orin Swift is like beer critics rating Bud Light. Why do wine critics feel obligated to shill for crap wine?

Probably for custom bespoke reasons…

[Mark_Golodetz]

What objective flaws do the wines have other than not being to your taste? I am no fan of the OS wines, but they are very well made in their particular style. Exemplars of terroir? No.

That is my problem with it. As you say, it has no terroir, it could have been grown hydroponically in Vietnam.

How can you say it is “well made.”

On the basis of appealing to many folks are you saying Coca Cola is well made?

[brigcampbell]

Maybe one day they find their own rabbit hole and start drinking Burgundy, but for now, at least they are drinking wine. Isn’t that what we really want?

If the Orin Swift crowd starts drinking Burgundy there will be a collective scream of anguish and “how dare they” from the board.

Damned if they do…

Funny enough, the guy who makes them loves Burgundy.

Lots of winemakers in the napa cult world drink old world

[joejolesch]

My wife and attended an Orin Swift wine dinner last year…the food and company were great, the wines, not so much. It would be one thing if these were all fruit bombs, but the surprise was they’re all dark, alcohol-laden, flabby, soupy, sugary messes. Like thick, flat soda. Shockingly bad. Now, I wouldn’t tell someone they shouldn’t like this, but I think this profile can found at a lower price point.

Either way, anyone scoring a wine based on balance, structure, complexity, aroma, overall quality, etc…we all clearly question how they arrive at a good score.

[David_Bu3ker]

What objective flaws do the wines have other than not being to your taste? I am no fan of the OS wines, but they are very well made in their particular style. Exemplars of terroir? No.

That is my problem with it. As you say, it has no terroir, it could have been grown hydroponically in Vietnam.

How can you say it is “well made.”

On the basis of appealing to many folks are you saying Coca Cola is well made?

Coca Cola is very well made. Whether you like it is not relevant.

[Chris_Crutchfield]

Coca Cola is very well made. Whether you like it is not relevant.

I think you are conflating “confected” with “well-made”

[Markus_S]

Maybe one day they find their own rabbit hole and start drinking Burgundy, but for now, at least they are drinking wine. Isn’t that what we really want?

If the Orin Swift crowd starts drinking Burgundy there will be a collective scream of anguish and “how dare they” from the board.

Damned if they do…

Funny enough, the guy who makes them loves Burgundy.

So? I know of many industrialists who badly pollute the environment and yet they love fishing in pristine unpolluted streams.
How you make your bread can be divorced from how you butter it.

[David_Bu3ker]

Coca Cola is very well made. Whether you like it is not relevant.

I think you are conflating “confected” with “well-made”

Again, you are using you palate opinion to define whether a product was properly made.

I think essentially every Sauvignon Blanc on the planet is shit, but that’s an opinion. It does not mean the wines are flawed/improperly produced.

[Mark_Mason]

Wait, are you implying that Outback sells Select beef? I looked on their website and it states that “Outback steaks are USDA graded, hand-trimmed and cooked to order” but it doesn’t state the grade. I also did not realize they started in the same city as Berns.

[Ron_Erickson]

What objective flaws do the wines have other than not being to your taste? I am no fan of the OS wines, but they are very well made in their particular style. Exemplars of terroir? No.

That is my problem with it. As you say, it has no terroir, it could have been grown hydroponically in Vietnam.

How can you say it is “well made.”

On the basis of appealing to many folks are you saying Coca Cola is well made?

Coca Cola is very well made. Whether you like it is not relevant.

[David_Bu3ker]

Pepsi sucks!!

[Ron_Erickson]

Let the battle lines be drawn. Time for a new thread?

[Chris_Seiber]

The few times I’ve had Orin Swift wines, they seemed more on the “reasonably well made but not a style I like” side than the “gross and crappy and I don’t get why anyone could admire them” side. That’s a distinction that some people think is stupid or doesn’t exist (I’ve gotten bashed for that view many times on WB), but it’s meaningful to me.

But I haven’t had their wines many times or really given it that much thought.

It’s a challenging question for the major commercial critic. Those wines are very popular, and if Wine Spectator, Vinuous or Wine Advocate went around giving them all 78 points because “it has no terroir, it could have been grown hydroponically in Vietnam,” that would be a pretty huge disconnect with a large segment of the audience.

It would be like a Car & Driver or Motor Trend critic bashing every big truck and SUV because she thinks those are ghastly and inefficient vehicles for most people to drive – I’m not sure that critic would keep an audience or significant auto critic job for long. She would probably be more effective to put aside her personal and political/social dislike of that category of vehicles and review them from the standpoint of how well they work for people who like big trucks and SUVs and how they compare to others in that category.

Major movie critics probably have to do that for big summer Hollywood blockbuster type movies – I’m guessing many of them dislike all or most movies in that category, but instead of just bashing them all, they adjust the reviews for those movies to make sense towards the kinds of moviegoers who go see those movies. Review Fast & Furious 12 mostly with an eye towards F&F viewers, not towards what Soho hipster indie film snobs would think. Likewise, review micro indie movies with an eye towards people who watch those movies, not towards what F&F guy would think.

Just some thoughts, anyway.