You nailed it with this comment. On Thursday I opened a 2017 Cave du Tain, Crozes Hermitage. It was lean, acidic, unbalanced and half was left. Last night it was richer, fruitier and had developed the herb and tar smells of a good Syrah.
always an interesting subject which, again, always completely removes the individual from the equation; we donāt all taste the same. there is zero doubt that air will affect various perceived things within a wine and there is zero doubt that we all respond differently to various tastes and smells. it follows that some people prefer what a wine exhibits with extended air, and some will not. this idea does not undermine real and expert advice, but they are at best guiderails. iāve only been drinking wine āseriouslyā for 20 years and my takeaway is that i donāt really know much at all. wine - like life - is full of weird surprises.
An honestly humble admission!
But I sense,Yaacov, that you might be an exemplar of the saying āThose who speak donāt know, those who know donāt speakā. I would encourage you to share some of the things that you donāt āknowā, but have learned about drinking wine in over 20 years of serious wine drinking. See the ābeginners mindā thread I started here: Some things you have learned about wine drinking? - Wine 101: The Basics - WineBerserkers
Cheers.
Lovely observation! A close family member of mine cannot taste at all the fruit notes of Petite Sirah, has weird (and weirdly consistent) Pinot Noir clone preferences, and also leans toward specific soil types for favorite Zinfandels.
I find it hilarious to taste with this person because I have a broader palate and can taste and enjoy a much wider variety of flavors than they can. My short decade of experience with wine has lead me to decant things that taste āclosedā ā more or less, young reds that have great aromatics but taste a bit dull/muted. Air either from a decant or in the glass does seem to have them develop over time.
With white wines, āmutedā primary fruit and aromas a lot of the time seem to be associated with those that have been chilled too long. Many times Iāve needed to warm up white wines in the glass in order to release more of the fruit and floral aromas that tend get locked down with cold.
My favorite part about the wine tasting experience has been sharing it with other people who have very different tastes!
This topic has been discussed in the past. Within the last year someone posted a scientific article about the affects of decanting and air on wine. According to science thereās no measurable impact of air on improving and or changing the flavor and or aroma of wine. That said, I too have experienced enhancements with young wine when exposed to extended periods of air.
Wine loves contact with air, but within reasonable limits and at the right temperature. The main thing is that nothing gets into it, it does not turn sour, otherwise the result will be the opposite. It is not necessary to drink wine in the first hours after opening the bottle.
I am in the habit (for everyday wine) wine of popping and pouring, take a smell and sip or two right away, then let sit in glass for 15-30 minutes and see some evolution. Usually put half bottle back in wine fridge for 1-2 days and usually get whole different tasting experiencing upon reopening - sometimes better, sometimes worse but keeps things interesting. That being said I make sure the nice wines get decanted properly.
Question looking for palate correlations:
What is your opinion of Scholium Project wines?
I am hypothesizing Scholium fans will also be more likely to enjoy wine that has been open a few days.
Same for Ch. Musar?
I completely agree - letting a young wine air is in no way an approximation for ageing.
That said, I have had many red wines that have improved on day 2, or even beyond. Contrary to what people have said above, theyāve usually been older wines. Just the other day, I drank the last third of a bottle of Mouton dāArmailhac 1945 the day after opening it. It had been recorked and left on the table(!) since the night before. The evening before, after 3 hours slow-ox, I decanted into a carafe (I didnāt want to give it too much air) and it was pretty closed and, although pleasant, it wasnāt a great drink. The following day, I poured the rest from the bottle into a spare glass. It was superb. Certainly old, but it had power, elegance, finesse, and great length - a revelation. Personally, I think this has more to do with the style of wine than the age. This wine was very old-school - clearly familiar with oxygen but needed time to acquaint itself with the outside world. The most extreme example was a 1/4 full bottle of 1943 Barolo that had completely transformed after 10 days(!) of air, on its sediment, in a recorked bottle. It was outstanding. I know it sounds crazy, but there we are.
On this. related topic, whatās the longest time an refrigerated open wine will still taste good / optimal? Any info would be appreciated.
It really depends on a wine. Iāve had a Sauvignon Blanc that was exactly the way it shouldāve been on day one and remarkably flat and lifeless on day two.
Then Iāve had wines that have been open for months and still drinking good. Probably the record goes to some off-dry Markus Molitor Riesling that was rather reductive upon opening, after 1/3 bottle the wine was just recorked and put back in the fridge. Fast-forward some 5 months and the wine is just singing, full of intense fruit and showing no signs of oxidation whatsoever.
Then there are oxidative wines which can keep good easily for months, even years.
However, most wines will taste good / optimal for a day or two. Some can take a few days more, others donāt even survive the first night. And then there are the 1% that can stay good for months.
Thank you otto, do you think those in the 1% might fall on higher pricing? Or that it just comes down to how it stored? Thank you in advance. Iām trying to rationalize spending money and time to learn about wine, constructing storage for it and getting into wine tasting and buying. But a part of me feels overwhelmed by the lack of knowledge, how even the people in wine 101 part of forum knows information that i consider very intricate.
Well, it definitely comes down to how it is stored, as the wine wonāt continue to develop after it is opened, just deteriorate. As chemical reactions happen faster in higher temperatures, the best way to slow down the deterioration is to keep the wine as cold as possible - in the coldest part of the fridge.
Often these wines that can age for atypically long are wines that are meant to be aged and are often priced accordingly. However, you have to remember that even most of the wines built to age do not keep that well after they are opened, only a very small minority can survive for weeks. Mainly itās the young German Rieslings that can be very closed and backward in their youth - they can be quite tightly-coiled upon opening, but they slowly open up and can keep good for weeks, even months, in the fridge.
Constructing storage is a completely different thing altogether. Wine storage is meant for unopened wines, fridge is the place for wines that are opened. If you are not planning on collecting wines, thereās no need for a wine storage. However, itās good to start thinking about one as soon as you start accumulating bottles faster than you can drink.
Finally, I donāt think you should compare yourself to others regarding the knowledge. Nobody should feel pressure on how much or little they know about wine, and as long as people remember to keep their eyes, ears and minds open, information will slowly come to them. If you keep on fiddling with wine, year from now you might actually realize that information you now think is very intricate might actually be some very basic information.
Thank you otto, that helps out very much. When you say wines are priced accordingly to the age capacity, do you think that any napa over 100$ falls in this capacity? Because being so new at this, i really donāt know anything about pricing to the actual contents and potentials od the wine. ( like i only researched why wines cost so much and the explanation was about vineyard, distributor, restaurant costs) would you say a wine has more bottle age when is costs more than most? And yes price is everything to me right now because as a newbie , and current climate, I donāt have expendable income to pour into fridges , crystal wine glasses, expensive napa tour ( well my sister might help me cover some of trip) and such but in the collection i inherited a lot of them are retail $100 up and i would hate to lower their potentials if I stored them incorrectly. And I will definitely take your advice and i believe Eric michaels and thomas gave me really good advice also. Thank you for understanding because I definitely need yours and others encouragement because i probably would have given up after day 1 one of using this forum. Now im just trying to approach everything as fast as I can learn and cost efficiency / with most value with everything.
Sorry for ramblingā¦ To continue on topic:
since I am new at this, I definitely have opened some bottles and they are in fridge, so i will try and see if the most expensive one I have opened taste better than the cheaper opened ones. ( opened a 2016 odette napa cab, and. 1996 chateau lafon roche saint estephe grand cru, 2000 chateau talbot saint julien, and a 2014 lithology napa cab). I feel bad about opening them because im just building my general palate and getting to understand wine notes and feels, but I had to start somewhere. I would have probably not spend my own money because I canāt afford it like that so letās see how they differ in taste in a week or two. ( lol random joke / newbie status for anyone who reads this, when my sister was explaining opus one, I said " but this has Robert mondavi name on itā¦ Isnāt he like cheap table wine status? Lol. I have a lot to learn so sorry all if I keep apologizing for my inadequacy)
Hard to find a Chenin that does not taste better the next day. I took an 04 Pinon Tradition Vouvray to dinner last month and deliberately opened it up the night before. Still a bit tight 24 hours later, it was at its peak after 48 hours. Had this with so many Chenin, even with 40+ years in the bottle.
As mentioned earlier, the Audouze method is an example of how wines improve with air. I had it again last week - an 86 Coonawarra Cabernet that just grew and grew. My experience though is that it works best in wines that are not over the top in terms of alcohol - my ā86 was 11%. Iāve drunk plenty of 14.5 %+ wines over the years and my preference now is to drink young and not to decant.
If I donāt finish a bottle of wine, I pour the dregs into one of 2 screw cap bottles of wine I keep for cooking - one for reds, one for whites. I usually replenish after I have used some for wine for cooking, but thatās not too often. Obviously I taste periodically to see how the āSoleraā is progressing and Iām amazed at the lack of oxidation.