wineries shipping bottles with no capsules??

[Robert.Fleming]

@A. Christiansen

It is my understanding that capsules originated as a means to keep servants from slipping corks out of expensive wines and replacing them with plonk. Since in these tough economic time I cannot I afford a staff, a capsule is a waste of foil and a nuisance to remove.

From the Wikipedia on “wine bottle”: “Capsules were historically made of lead, and protected the cork from being gnawed away by rodents or infested with cork weevil.” Not as romantic as your understanding, but more likely to be true. Since I have neither rodents nor weevils in my cellar, a capsule is a waste and a nuisance.

[Michael_Bowden]

No capsule for Harlan.

[Frank_Drew]

I’m fine with no capsules; the one I’m familiar with is Nikolaihof, which David mentioned. I do think however, that in some producers’ cellars insects boring into bare corks have been a problem; Zind Humbrecht comes to mind in this regard.

[Paul_Romero]

@Morgan Twain-Peterson

This is a good question, and though I cannot answer for Pax, Wells Guthrie, and Bradley, I can certainly give you the brief breakdown of the decision making for my wines.

Here’s the time line as I know it:

Brian Loring was ‘first’. Before he was screwcap he was no capsule and made the decision as he could find no good reason to put a capsule on other than decoration, at least that’s what he had on his website circa 2002-2003. Wells Guthrie was also ‘sans’ capsule from about the same time (1998,1999ish). Both Brian and Wells offered advice to me on things like compliance and shipping and the ugly logistical things in starting a winery. We did no capsule in part as an ode to those two for the help they had given us. This is 2005.

In 2007 I crushed about 40% of my production with Bradley at Big Basin. He was already thinking of getting rid of the capsules and going to lighter bottles, both things I was doing. He quizzed me about both, especially consumer acceptance and in 2008 he was making the switch. Also in 2008 I was selling fruit to Bradley and Pax. Bradley talked with Pax about smaller bottles and no capsule during harvest that year. I don’t know if Pax was already thinking about it, but third hand Bradley told me he had talked Pax into it.

Brian usually gets left out of this discussion when it comes up, but in my mind he was the pioneer.

[David_Bu3ker]

@Paul Romero

@Morgan Twain-Peterson

This is a good question, and though I cannot answer for Pax, Wells Guthrie, and Bradley, I can certainly give you the brief breakdown of the decision making for my wines.

Here’s the time line as I know it:

Brian Loring was ‘first’. Before he was screwcap he was no capsule and made the decision as he could find no good reason to put a capsule on other than decoration, at least that’s what he had on his website circa 2002-2003. Wells Guthrie was also ‘sans’ capsule from about the same time (1998,1999ish). Both Brian and Wells offered advice to me on things like compliance and shipping and the ugly logistical things in starting a winery. We did no capsule in part as an ode to those two for the help they had given us. This is 2005.

In 2007 I crushed about 40% of my production with Bradley at Big Basin. He was already thinking of getting rid of the capsules and going to lighter bottles, both things I was doing. He quizzed me about both, especially consumer acceptance and in 2008 he was making the switch. Also in 2008 I was selling fruit to Bradley and Pax. Bradley talked with Pax about smaller bottles and no capsule during harvest that year. I don’t know if Pax was already thinking about it, but third hand Bradley told me he had talked Pax into it.

Brian usually gets left out of this discussion when it comes up, but in my mind he was the pioneer.

Nikolaihof started with the '99 vintage (perhaps earlier, but that’s the oldest in my cellar).

[Robert.Fleming]

@Paul Romero

Here’s the time line as I know it:

Brian Loring was ‘first’. Before he was screwcap he was no capsule and made the decision as he could find no good reason to put a capsule on other than decoration, at least that’s what he had on his website circa 2002-2003. Wells Guthrie was also ‘sans’ capsule from about the same time (1998,1999ish).

Early, but not first. Robert Mondavi’s Carneros Chardonnay and Pinot Noir were bottled sans capsule starting in 1993, followed by the rest of his Napa Valley lineup (in the flange bottle) in 1994.

[Larry_P]

The Bedrock bottles touched off a debate about capsules in our house. The capsules clearly give my wife a sense of comfort that the wine hasn’t been tampered with. Maybe this means something when buying from a 3rd party, but winery direct I’m perfectly happy to have no capsule.

It’s funny to see Pax moving away from capsules, as there’s probably nobody whose capsules I’ve cursed more than his (until I figured out how to deal with wax, that is).

[Jim_V_a_n_P_e_l_t]

@Morgan Twain-Peterson

This is a good question, and though I cannot answer for Pax, Wells Guthrie, and Bradley, I can certainly give you the brief breakdown of the decision making for my wines.

Pros of the capsule: It is non-threatening to the consumer and is an almost an expected part of the package. If my greatest fantasy happens and I have to worry about people forging bottles of the wine the capsule is an additional barrier to this.

Cons to the capsule: The process of making tin capsules uses lots of water which is no-bueno for our H2O starved state (I’d rather see it go to the farmers in the Central Valley that need it to survive) if made here, and if made in Spain, like many, have a pretty narly carbon footprint. Foils only serve to to cover up cork damage (thank you to Bradley for that great video). I operate my winery on slimmer margins than many as I want to offer good QPA and at .10 cents a capsule my 3,000 cases or so of production still equates to $3-4k saved on something that essentially does nothing.

Many of these same reasons have contributed to my decision to put the high-end Syrahs and Sauvignon Blanc into lighter Burg bottles for upcoming releases.

Kudos to a well thought out position!

[Brian_Tuite]

@Robert.Fleming

@A. Christiansen

It is my understanding that capsules originated as a means to keep servants from slipping corks out of expensive wines and replacing them with plonk. Since in these tough economic time I cannot I afford a staff, a capsule is a waste of foil and a nuisance to remove.

From the Wikipedia on “wine bottle”: “Capsules were historically made of lead, and protected the cork from being gnawed away by rodents or infested with cork weevil.” Not as romantic as your understanding, but more likely to be true. Since I have neither rodents nor weevils in my cellar, a capsule is a waste and a nuisance.

Have you ever considered that the reason you have no rodents or weevils in your cellar may be because the capsules are doing their job? Hmmm?

[Mark_Gerdelmann]

I had the same reaction with bedrock last year but it makes them easy to select.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

Mark, thread drift, but love the huskies.

[C_Grimm]

@Robert.Fleming

@A. Christiansen

It is my understanding that capsules originated as a means to keep servants from slipping corks out of expensive wines and replacing them with plonk. Since in these tough economic time I cannot I afford a staff, a capsule is a waste of foil and a nuisance to remove.

From the Wikipedia on “wine bottle”: “Capsules were historically made of lead, and protected the cork from being gnawed away by rodents or infested with cork weevil.” Not as romantic as your understanding, but more likely to be true. Since I have neither rodents nor weevils in my cellar, a capsule is a waste and a nuisance.

I’ve had mice gnaw on the capsules of sweet wines. Fuckers.

But I also have otherwise been stumped as to what practical purpose it could serve. (First thought being, if one has a bad cork, the capsule isn’t going to save the wine.)

[Roy_Piper]

I think Vice-Versa might be one too.

[gene_keenan]

Mondavi

[gene_keenan]

Byron
Caps crown

[Tom_Gutting]

The Zepaltas RRV Chardonnay comes without a capsule, too. If you’ve ever had the WesMar Sur Lees Pinot, also capsule-less. It doesn’t bother me at all.

[David_Bu3ker]

Edmunds St. John is doing a few wines without capsules.

[Levi_D]

Torbreck

[Nolan_E]

On wines where I cannot 100% guarantee provenance, I cut the capsules off before I store them. If I have multiples of the same bottling and one has more stained cork than others I’ll usually open it sooner. I have no intention of selling for a profit, and people I’d trade with wouldn’t be the people to worry too much about a capsule.

[Mark_A]

@Bill Tex Landreth

Mark, thread drift, but love the huskies.

Thanks