I went from a pretty heavy buyer of White Burgs to not necessarily a non-buyer but certainly a bare fraction of what I used to purchase. I will buy wines from solid producers when they are ridiculously posted-off and generally drink them way younger than they probably should in theory be comsumed. I get less enjoyment from them than one would normally associate but I am in for a lot less money and generally don’t run into pre-mox problems since I am drinking them so young. Far from optimal but I still enjoy the younger flavors of Puligny, etc. I am no longer in any way shape or form some decent customer of White Burgs where I once really was.
Never seen any hint of premox in the Aussie whites that have been under screw for a long time now…not one…only proof the age much, much slower and don’t have TCA issues.
But then there’s Bill’s post above about two White Burg producers who bottle under screw-cap and still have p’ox issues.
Just to raise again something that’s not been mentioned in this thread-didn’t almost everyone get a new press in 95-96, which enabled far gentler pressing leaving phenolic elements behind? (I don’t know the answer btw). My general complaint, though, not particularly premox related, is that they have lost the recipe for making proper white burgundy.
cork variability (permeability)
alan
What has totally bamboozled me is that all my 04 Gilbert Picq Chablis, that were some of the most highly strung Chards I’ve ever seen from a cool, high acid vintage have tipped rapidly over the hill in the last 12 months.
Expanding a bit on Alan’s answer, which makes sense to me: Assume that, for whatever reason, the wines from 1995 on were more vulnerable to oxidation than they’d been previously; that doesn’t mean that they went into bottle already oxidized – early tasting showed wines in good health – just that they weren’t as resistant as they’d been. Of course, oxidation needs oxygen to occur; if no oxygen got past the corks we wouldn’t be having this discussion, but it’s widely accepted that natural cork is an unpredictably imperfect closure, with widely varying rates of oxygen ingress. So it makes sense that just as the corks’ performance is somewhat random, bottles would show the effects of premature oxidation earlier or later or not at all in a random pattern.
Frank,
The reading that i have done suggests that it’s not teh ingress of oxygen that increases the rate of degradation, but the reduction in the level of free SO2 via egress I assume.
Cheers,
Kent
Kent, perhaps that’s more accurate, but absent any further addition of oxygen into the bottles, would there be sufficient dissolved oxygen in the bottled wines to cause oxidation to occur if the free SO2 level dropped by escaping past the corks or by some other mechanism?
Cork variance makes sense, since there isn’t much else that would separate bottles within a case lot.
One of the appeals of older white Burgundies is the slight impact of oxidation over time that provides some of the attractive flavour nuances. We enjoyed
a 1991 Batard-Montrachet (Jadot) at dinner a couple of weeks ago that featured this in its flavour profile - and it was truly an exceptional bottle.
While not a pre-mox condition, our first bottle that day at lunch of the 2006 Ramonet Batard-Montrachet was unfortunately corked, but the second bottle was
sublime. Nice to be drinking fine white Burgundy ! ![[basic-smile.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/8/83717c74df9b0ce202453063bc4f11baf0ee6b8a.gif "smile"){kind=small}
Hank ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
I presume this is just their village wine, kent. I had the 2004 1er Vaucoupin last week-end and it is stil fresh as a daisy.
If you haven’t read Don Cornwell’'s wiki on this subject – head on over. He goes into great detail on this topic.
Vosgros and VV cactii. i’ll investigate a Vacoupin.
I’ve been reading and participating since very early on.
In fact, I was reading on it last weekend to try to figure out the “latest”. Though something purported to be “the latest” , it was undated and I couldn’t tell.
Bottom line: Don nicely summarizes the moving target theories and lots of the science that may or may not be relevant to the quest. (And, of course, provides some great data!) But, like everything else I’ve read on the subject, I come away with no real insights/answers into the causes or the solutions…just lots of supposition and Don’s opinions. I sense that there is nothing much more to be had at this point, though…and that’s worrisome. I wonder if any real progress on those issues will ever show up.
Broken record. Stelvin/screw cap please. Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.Stelvin/screw cap please.
Forget the closure politics. Just give me a choice.
You have to bug the importers Anthony - then bug them again!
There are producers who didn’t sell all the screw-cap whites they made in 2007 and 2008. So because they are sitting on stocks, they are using more corks (or turning their backs on grape contracts they may never see again) in 09…
The demand has to come from the market - and so-far there’s not enough…
Bill, that is a good thing IMO. It seems from your post that the broader market may be coming to understand that these wines are not what they are supposed to be. Puts a lot of pressure on the producers to fix the problem, which is not easy to do, and will take many years to prove. But at the end or the day, it should be their problem, not our (consumers) problem.
Agreed,Lew and…read Greg’s book.Fascinating,saddening,maddening and uplifting.
Thanks for the tip.
“Greg’s book”? ![[scratch.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/4/42a16863a8714da3c1604419e3eb9206bb87aa50.gif "scratch"){kind=small}
Momentary thread shift,carry on.