Ray Walker & Maison Ilan updates - the saga has ended...(updated)

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#1151 Post by Vamsi Kaipa » February 27th, 2018, 10:29 pm

I would like to read it as well. Anyone want to share privately as well. Thanks.
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Ray Walker & Maison Ilan updates - the saga has ended...(updated)

#1152 Post by Jack Linden » February 27th, 2018, 11:58 pm

Vamsi Kaipa wrote:I would like to read it as well. Anyone want to share privately as well. Thanks.
As would I. Thanks.

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#1153 Post by Jürgen Steinke » February 28th, 2018, 12:17 am

me too. Thanks.

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#1154 Post by Tim Heaton » February 28th, 2018, 1:11 am

I stopped reading after the third sentence; the person/essayist is not a writer. Not even close.

The saga ended a long time ago, even if some of the associated pain flares up (for some) from time to time.

Ray's not the first to get in over his head, he's not the last, either.
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#1155 Post by Gareth Welch » February 28th, 2018, 3:32 am

I thought it was massively entertaining.

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#1156 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » February 28th, 2018, 6:34 am

I did learn from the author that after you get divorced, you new to take Viagra every day just to be ready and to drop all that fat and out on lean muscle.
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#1157 Post by C. Mc Cart » February 28th, 2018, 6:59 am

Yes, by all measures his essay is not well written and needs massive editing, but it sounds like he is young and not a writer, nor trying to be one. Doesn't mean it was not entertaining and enlightening. I didn't have the impression he himself was indulging in hyperbole and trying to use this as a launchpad for himself.
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#1158 Post by C. Mc Cart » February 28th, 2018, 7:06 am

Bill Tex Landreth wrote:I did learn from the author that after you get divorced, you new to take Viagra every day just to be ready and to drop all that fat and out on lean muscle.
& to be ready when in travelling in Asia. Guess we can add 'pig' to his list of issues.
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#1159 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » February 28th, 2018, 7:12 am

C. Mc Cart wrote:
Bill Tex Landreth wrote:I did learn from the author that after you get divorced, you new to take Viagra every day just to be ready and to drop all that fat and out on lean muscle.
& to be ready when in travelling in Asia. Guess we can add 'pig' to his list of issues.
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#1160 Post by Miles_T » February 28th, 2018, 7:27 am

Hi All! I'm the much maligned author of the article. I'd like to clear up a few things.
1) The footnote about Eric was from a previous version, and should have been deleted long ago. It was an incorrect interpretation, and I appreciate all those who called me out on it.
2) This wasn't supposed to be about Ray, any more than it's about Hong Kong. It's about structures of power. Hence the historical and personal meandering. It all ties together to make a larger point. I'm sorry if you were looking for investigative journalism—this was meant to be a work of literary non-fiction.
3) I actually do have an editor! We were working to try and overload the reader with information, simulating the visuals of Hong Kong. The idea was to somehow create a sort of visual onomatopoeia, as well as forcing the reader to craft their own meaning, rather than saying why it all connected. Also, 40 word document pages is about the length of a feature in most magazines, so it is not overly long.
4) The reason I asked for it to be taken down is related to (2). It's not that I want to be paid, as someone suggested. Instead, it is that the essay would be better served being published in a literary/travel journal. However, everything in it is factual and not hyperbole. Furthermore, though I'd rather the document not be emailed around privately, I also know I can't stop it.
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#1161 Post by Brian Tuite » February 28th, 2018, 7:34 am

Miles_T wrote:Hi All! I'm the much maligned author of the article. I'd like to clear up a few things.
1) The footnote about Eric was from a previous version, and should have been deleted long ago. It was an incorrect interpretation, and I appreciate all those who called me out on it.
2) This wasn't supposed to be about Ray, any more than it's about Hong Kong. It's about structures of power. Hence the historical and personal meandering. It all ties together to make a larger point. I'm sorry if you were looking for investigative journalism—this was meant to be a work of literary non-fiction.
3) I actually do have an editor! We were working to try and overload the reader with information, simulating the visuals of Hong Kong. The idea was to somehow create a sort of visual onomatopoeia, as well as forcing the reader to craft their own meaning, rather than saying why it all connected. Also, 40 word document pages is about the length of a feature in most magazines, so it is not overly long.
4) The reason I asked for it to be taken down is related to (2). It's not that I want to be paid, as someone suggested. Instead, it is that the essay would be better served being published in a literary/travel journal. However, everything in it is factual and not hyperbole. Furthermore, though I'd rather the document not be emailed around privately, I also know I can't stop it.
Thanks Miles. I doubt anyone downloaded it as it was linked to the Facebook page. I had the document oen on my phone from yesterday but this morning when I chose the browser window it wanted to reload “lookaside documents”and then disappeared. You’re probably safe from much sharing.
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#1162 Post by T. Altmayer » February 28th, 2018, 7:46 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:I'm only on page 6, and so far my impression of Miles Taylor is that he has mental issues, is on drugs, is a poor writer, or -- more likely -- some combination thereof.
I think he’s read one too many Jay McInerney novels. That said, it found it mildly entertaining.
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#1163 Post by Bruce Leiser_owitz » February 28th, 2018, 8:14 am

Miles_T wrote: The idea was to somehow create a sort of visual onomatopoeia, as well as forcing the reader to craft their own meaning, rather than saying why it all connected.
Well, I would say you were somewhat successful in forcing the reader to craft their own meaning.

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#1164 Post by ky1em!ttskus » February 28th, 2018, 8:40 am

What you wrote isn’t literary non-fiction.

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#1165 Post by Gareth Welch » February 28th, 2018, 9:12 am

More vitriol for the author than the subject - interesting.

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#1166 Post by Todd F r e n c h » February 28th, 2018, 9:18 am

Gareth Welch wrote:More vitriol for the author than the subject - interesting.
Gareth, I don't think you've read much about Maison Ilan on this forum...as that's not even CLOSE to being true.
Apparently I'm lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance (RMP) (and have a "penchant for gossip" -KBI)

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#1167 Post by Chris Blum » February 28th, 2018, 9:30 am

I thought it was interesting. It was a look behind the curtain as to how Ray operates. From a distance we all saw the casual lies, the mismatched backstory, the manipulation and the dark moods. But here was somebody who saw that stuff up close in weird little ways.

Too bad the writer has chosen not to include the more substantive stuff he hints at. Still, I thought it was an interesting glimpse into Ray’s life. It gives a bit of perspective for me.
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#1168 Post by PaulMills » February 28th, 2018, 9:52 am

I downloaded it to my phone yesterday and just finished reading it. I wish I could get that time back.

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#1169 Post by ky1em!ttskus » February 28th, 2018, 10:02 am

Chris Blum wrote:I thought it was interesting. It was a look behind the curtain as to how Ray operates. From a distance we all saw the casual lies, the mismatched backstory, the manipulation and the dark moods. But here was somebody who saw that stuff up close in weird little ways.

Too bad the writer has chosen not to include the more substantive stuff he hints at. Still, I thought it was an interesting glimpse into Ray’s life. It gives a bit of perspective for me.
But the author is admitting that this perspective he's providing isn't accurate.

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#1170 Post by Mike Cohen » February 28th, 2018, 10:10 am

PaulMills wrote:just finished reading it. I wish I could get that time back.
^This.

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#1171 Post by CWun » February 28th, 2018, 10:44 am

The guy is an aspiring writer, so it reads like one of those magazine type pieces. He wasn't going for a bulletpoint listing. I just skimmed over the history lesson parts.
Sadly, it confirms what we already heard about Ray.
If the investor put 2.5 million into the company, was Ray using that money as his spending money everywhere?
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#1172 Post by Miles_T » February 28th, 2018, 10:50 am

ky1em!ttskus wrote:
Chris Blum wrote:I thought it was interesting. It was a look behind the curtain as to how Ray operates. From a distance we all saw the casual lies, the mismatched backstory, the manipulation and the dark moods. But here was somebody who saw that stuff up close in weird little ways.

Too bad the writer has chosen not to include the more substantive stuff he hints at. Still, I thought it was an interesting glimpse into Ray’s life. It gives a bit of perspective for me.
But the author is admitting that this perspective he's providing isn't accurate.
If you could point me to where I said that, that would be great. (I'm not being sarcastic—I stand by my writing, and if that's not clear somewhere, I want change that)
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#1173 Post by scamhi » February 28th, 2018, 10:58 am

Chris Blum wrote:I thought it was interesting. It was a look behind the curtain as to how Ray operates. From a distance we all saw the casual lies, the mismatched backstory, the manipulation and the dark moods. But here was somebody who saw that stuff up close in weird little ways.

Too bad the writer has chosen not to include the more substantive stuff he hints at. Still, I thought it was an interesting glimpse into Ray’s life. It gives a bit of perspective for me.
My question is what is his dear family doing to help this train wreck of a person. He needs professional help.
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#1174 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » February 28th, 2018, 11:02 am

scamhi wrote:
Chris Blum wrote:I thought it was interesting. It was a look behind the curtain as to how Ray operates. From a distance we all saw the casual lies, the mismatched backstory, the manipulation and the dark moods. But here was somebody who saw that stuff up close in weird little ways.

Too bad the writer has chosen not to include the more substantive stuff he hints at. Still, I thought it was an interesting glimpse into Ray’s life. It gives a bit of perspective for me.
My question is what is his dear family doing to help this train wreck of a person. He needs professional help.
Making wine and selling real estate, that's what.
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#1175 Post by Jorge Henriquez » February 28th, 2018, 11:10 am

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#1176 Post by Miles_T » February 28th, 2018, 11:14 am

scamhi wrote:
Chris Blum wrote:I thought it was interesting. It was a look behind the curtain as to how Ray operates. From a distance we all saw the casual lies, the mismatched backstory, the manipulation and the dark moods. But here was somebody who saw that stuff up close in weird little ways.

Too bad the writer has chosen not to include the more substantive stuff he hints at. Still, I thought it was an interesting glimpse into Ray’s life. It gives a bit of perspective for me.
My question is what is his dear family doing to help this train wreck of a person. He needs professional help.
Good question! If you mean Ray, his relationship to his family is complicated. If you mean me: My family supports me however they can, include finding me professional help. I am unashamed to say I see a therapist, and am concerned how this thread stigmatizes mental illness! Depression and anxiety are not only normal in this day and age, but are possibly the only rational responses to a world where the ice caps are melting and human suffering seems to be growing.
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#1177 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » February 28th, 2018, 11:15 am

She meant Ray.
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#1178 Post by Markus S » February 28th, 2018, 11:16 am

Miles_T wrote:... forcing the reader to craft their own meaning, rather than saying why it all connected.....
So typical of this age. Nobody wants to do the hard work of making connections, of saying why it all matters. We'd rather swipe our way through life, looking at all the eye candy.

I don't feel bad for having the article embargoed now...
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#1179 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » February 28th, 2018, 11:16 am

Jorge Henriquez wrote:Faith & Hope will solve all troubles.
How about some thoughts and prayers for good measure.
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#1180 Post by Todd F r e n c h » February 28th, 2018, 11:18 am

ybarselah wrote:it's pretty bad but here's a link: [removed]
Yaacov - the author asked for it to be taken down, which I did, and you reposted it. The post was reported - do not post a link to the article
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#1181 Post by ky1em!ttskus » February 28th, 2018, 11:20 am

Miles_T wrote:
ky1em!ttskus wrote:
Chris Blum wrote:I thought it was interesting. It was a look behind the curtain as to how Ray operates. From a distance we all saw the casual lies, the mismatched backstory, the manipulation and the dark moods. But here was somebody who saw that stuff up close in weird little ways.

Too bad the writer has chosen not to include the more substantive stuff he hints at. Still, I thought it was an interesting glimpse into Ray’s life. It gives a bit of perspective for me.
But the author is admitting that this perspective he's providing isn't accurate.
If you could point me to where I said that, that would be great. (I'm not being sarcastic—I stand by my writing, and if that's not clear somewhere, I want change that)
You characterized your writing as “literary nonfiction” and specifically not journalism above and say, about at least one section, that you want readers to “craft their own meaning.”

Neither of those two statements leads me to the belief that what you wrote is completely accurate.

Edit for typo: nonfiction.

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#1182 Post by Jay Miller » February 28th, 2018, 11:26 am

Personally while I can cavil at some of the embellishments I certainly found the additional perspective and details interesting and worth reading about. There were plenty of things I found less interesting but I suspect many of those are exactly the elements that might make it more interesting to a magazine.
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#1183 Post by scamhi » February 28th, 2018, 11:36 am

Bill Tex Landreth wrote:She meant Ray.
Yup
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#1184 Post by Miles_T » February 28th, 2018, 11:38 am

ky1em!ttskus wrote:
You characterized your writing as “literary nonfiction” and specifically not journalism above and say, about at least one section, that you want readers to “craft their own meaning.”

Neither of those two statements leads me to the belief that what you wrote is completely accurate.

Edit for typo: nonfiction.

I can see the confusion. Literary non-fiction is still that—non-fiction. You are right that it's not journalism, as it's more subjective.
When I said that I want people to craft their own meaning, it does not mean that anything is untrue. Instead, it means that the piece is not didactic. I don't want to tell you what to think.
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#1185 Post by Mark Mason » February 28th, 2018, 11:45 am

Please post when you make this public, I would really be interested in reading your work.
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#1186 Post by Freek S u i j v e r » February 28th, 2018, 11:51 am

Edit: issue resolved.
Last edited by Freek S u i j v e r on February 28th, 2018, 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#1187 Post by Brian Gilp » February 28th, 2018, 12:11 pm

Done.

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#1188 Post by Freek S u i j v e r » February 28th, 2018, 12:27 pm

Thanks Brian, appreciated!

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#1189 Post by Chris Blum » February 28th, 2018, 2:54 pm

scamhi wrote:
Chris Blum wrote:I thought it was interesting. It was a look behind the curtain as to how Ray operates. From a distance we all saw the casual lies, the mismatched backstory, the manipulation and the dark moods. But here was somebody who saw that stuff up close in weird little ways.

Too bad the writer has chosen not to include the more substantive stuff he hints at. Still, I thought it was an interesting glimpse into Ray’s life. It gives a bit of perspective for me.
My question is what is his dear family doing to help this train wreck of a person. He needs professional help.
I imagine his brother actually believes that Ray is the victim in all of this. If not for....

-the terrible people on this forum,
-Ray’s ex-wife,
-the grasping and controlling investor,
-the pigheaded French bureaucrats,
-the two-faced growers,
-the xenophobic and racist burgundy winemaking community,
-self-important bloggers and
-a host of others

....who all sought to tear down this humble genius; Ray would still be traveling the globe instead of traveling the 101 with a car full of German tourists.
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#1190 Post by Kris Patten » February 28th, 2018, 7:38 pm

Can someone PM me this article? Ray still owes me wine BTW.
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#1191 Post by alan weinberg » February 28th, 2018, 7:42 pm

Kris Patten wrote:Can someone PM me this article? Ray still owes me wine BTW.
Premier Cru is holding it.

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#1192 Post by Kris Patten » February 28th, 2018, 7:55 pm

alan weinberg wrote:
Kris Patten wrote:Can someone PM me this article? Ray still owes me wine BTW.
Premier Cru is holding it.
They owe me some wine too.....0 for 2.
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#1193 Post by Randy Bowman » February 28th, 2018, 8:34 pm

Kris, you've been had. Your money is gone and you will never see the wine, even though the money you lost might be worth it so you don't have to drink the wine.
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#1194 Post by Randy Bowman » February 28th, 2018, 8:42 pm

The essay had an interesting amount of history in it and I actually enjoyed most of it. As for Ray, Miles outlined my perception of Ray and was even kind. I like others were probably expecting an expose of Ray's criminal deeds. He did provide confirmation of Ray's greed and disdain at a personally observed level.

I would like to see the investor go after Ray. Not to know who you are, but to put Ray in his place, behind bars. Ray will continue to be Ray until he is sued and/or prosecuted. I'm guessing he will appear in an American Greed episode in 2019 or 2020, though he will probably demand he play himself in the episode and be paid for it.
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#1195 Post by Kris Patten » February 28th, 2018, 9:11 pm

Randy Bowman wrote:Kris, you've been had. Your money is gone and you will never see the wine, even though the money you lost might be worth it so you don't have to drink the wine.
Trust me, I knew that a long time ago.
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#1196 Post by billnanson » March 1st, 2018, 12:50 am

Jay Miller wrote:Personally while I can cavil at some of the embellishments I certainly found the additional perspective and details interesting and worth reading about. There were plenty of things I found less interesting but I suspect many of those are exactly the elements that might make it more interesting to a magazine.
I can go with that too...
He's mischaracterised one thing that I wrote as it was simply a quote from Grégory Gouges, not an inference by me. Presumably the first-hand interactions are accurate though...
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Ray Walker & Maison Ilan updates - the saga has ended...(updated)

#1197 Post by Jack Linden » March 1st, 2018, 12:57 am

Randy Bowman wrote:The essay had an interesting amount of history in it and I actually enjoyed most of it. As for Ray, Miles outlined my perception of Ray and was even kind. I like others were probably expecting an expose of Ray's criminal deeds. He did provide confirmation of Ray's greed and disdain at a personally observed level.

I would like to see the investor go after Ray. Not to know who you are, but to put Ray in his place, behind bars. Ray will continue to be Ray until he is sued and/or prosecuted. I'm guessing he will appear in an American Greed episode in 2019 or 2020, though he will probably demand he play himself in the episode and be paid for it.
According to Bill Nanson, the investor was Casey Cowell, some tech megarich.

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Ray Walker & Maison Ilan updates - the saga has ended...(updated)

#1198 Post by Larry Kaplan » March 1st, 2018, 8:40 am

Randy Bowman wrote:I would like to see the investor go after Ray. Not to know who you are, but to put Ray in his place, behind bars.
The cost in legal fees would far exceed any money recouped. He tried to salvage the brand but Ray took a flame thrower to that. So he is just SOL like many others in this tragic tale.
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Ray Walker & Maison Ilan updates - the saga has ended...(updated)

#1199 Post by brigcampbell » March 1st, 2018, 8:46 am

Casey Cowell started US Robotics, everyone had that 19.2K/9600 baud modem and the Palm Pilot.

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Ray Walker & Maison Ilan updates - the saga has ended...(updated)

#1200 Post by scott c » March 1st, 2018, 11:24 am

Wow, tough crowd. I mean, it's not going to win a Pulitzer or anything, but it captured my attention for a piece of the afternoon. I felt like I was there in Hong Kong with them, illegally smoking cigars in an underground wine club.
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