American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

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American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#1 Post by Ken B r o w n » June 10th, 2020, 9:14 pm

TL;DR: "No drinking allowed" is a very broad and conservative statement. Based on conclusions of the underlying study, it appears that having 1 "standard" drink per day carries similar risk as not having any drinks.

American Cancer Society (ACS) just published their newly revised diet/exercise/etc guidelines on minimizing cancer risks. From a summary in Forbes:
Previous guideline from 2012: If you drink alcoholic beverages, limit to no more than 1 drink per day for women and 2 per day for men.

New: The ACS now says it’s best to completely avoid all alcohol. However, they say for people who do choose to drink. they repeat the previous recommendation of no more than 1 drink per day for women and 2 drinks per day for men.
The full recommendation is published as an article in a medical journal. An edited excerpt:
Alcohol consumption is the third major modifiable cancer risk factor after tobacco use and excess body weight.

In 2016, approximately 50.7% of the US population aged ≥12 years reported current (ie, in the past 30 days) alcohol consumption, approximately 6% were heavy alcohol drinkers (ie, drank ≥5 alcoholic beverages on the same occasion on ≥5 days in the past 30 days), and approximately 24.2% of the population were binge drinkers (ie, drank at least ≥5 alcoholic beverages on the same occasion on at least 1 day in the past 30 days).

Despite the fact that a substantial number of cancer cases are attributed to alcohol consumption in the United States, and that reducing alcoholic beverage consumption is one of the WHO Best Buys for reducing noncommunicable diseases, public awareness about the carcinogenicity of alcohol, and its primary metabolite acetaldehyde, is low. Furthermore, fewer than one‐half of the CDC‐funded comprehensive cancer control plans specify goals, objectives, or strategies for alcohol control. Finally, alcohol control has benefits beyond those for cancer, and recently a report from the Global Burden of Disease Study found that “consuming zero standard drinks daily minimizes the overall risk to health"
It appears that the change in guideline from 1/2 drinks per day to 0 drinks is based on a study from 2016 performed by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME), a global health research center at the University of Washington (US). IHME is in the business of evidence-based healthcare, they're funded in large part by Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Evidence-based healthcare is making conclusions based on data. Collecting massive amounts of data, untangling it, removing or factoring for bias, dealing with various other data issues is the nature of their work. They don't perform experiments of, say, making people imbibe various amounts of alcohol and then tracking their health.

The study looked at alcohol use in 195 countries and territories for the period of 1990–2016. They went through a large spectrum of humans, ranging in age from 15 to 95+. That is a lot of data and at truly global scale but it's also a lot of factors. Common sense would dictate that someone who drinks copious amounts at 20 years of age is more likely to die from a road accident rather than cancer. The full text of the study confirms this. The older folks have a different story:
For populations aged 50 years and older, cancers accounted for a large proportion of total alcohol-attributable deaths in 2016, constituting 27.1% of total alcohol-attributable female deaths and 18.9% of male deaths. The level of alcohol consumption that minimized harm across health outcomes was zero standard drinks per week.
This conclusive last sentence has a very curious wording, "minimized harm across health outcomes". Remember all that stuff you've heard about how a glass of red a day helps you lower the risk of heart disease, wouldn't that be "minimizing harm"? They took that into account:
In estimating the weighted relative risk curve, we found that consuming zero standard drinks daily minimized the overall risk of all health loss The risk rose monotonically with increasing amounts of daily drinking. This weighted relative risk curve took into account the protective effects of alcohol use associated with ischemic heart disease and diabetes in females. However, these protective effects were offset by the risks associated with cancers, which increased monotonically with consumption. In a sensitivity analysis, where we explored how the weighted relative risk curve changed on the basis of the choice of weights for various health outcomes, the curve changed significantly only in settings where diabetes and ischemic heart disease comprised more than 60% of total deaths in a population.
Wait, what? Are they now saying that for a (presumably older) group where diabetes+heart disease are causing more deaths versus the rest of the population, it might help to drink more than zero glasses per day?! Their choice of words is almost deliberately oblique. Let's have a look at their graph that shows risk versus number of drinks:

Image

Color me purple and call me Barney, 0 drinks and 1 drink appear to yield the same risk! If you think this is an optical illusion, have a look at the hi-res version of the graph. Without diving into their data, I can't say if the 0 versus 1 line is truly straight and the risk is indeed the same...but it certainly looks that way. Someone call Forbes.

Last but not least, ACS and IHME study appear to be using a different definition of a "standard" drink.

IHME: Standard drink is 10 grams of pure alcohol. About the equivalent of:

A small glass of red wine (100 ml or 3.4 fluid ounces) at 13% alcohol by volume;
A can or bottle of beer (375 ml or 12 fluid ounces) at 3.5% alcohol by volume; or
A shot of whiskey or other spirits (30 ml or 1.0 fluid ounces) at 40% alcohol by volume.
“Standard drinks” are different by country. For example, in the UK a standard drink is 8 grams of alcohol, whereas in Australia, the US, and Japan, it is 10 grams.

ACS: Standard drink is 12 ounces of regular beer, 5 ounces of wine, or 1.5 ounces of 80-proof distilled spirits. 5 ounces of wine at 12-13% is 14 grams of pure alcohol.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#2 Post by David K o l i n » June 10th, 2020, 9:24 pm

I guess I’m going to die. Who isn’t?

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#3 Post by Mike R » June 10th, 2020, 9:33 pm

This is somewhat scary to see, but hard to say that I'll change my behavior based on it. Obviously I think we all somewhat know and accept that alcohol, including our beloved wine, is not a healthy hobby. I've chosen to accept this risk, and limit my wine consumption to a few days a week. I'm okay with a bit of risk if it means a life well lived.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#4 Post by M@tt G. » June 10th, 2020, 9:47 pm

IHME keeps getting their coronavirus projections way wrong. I’ll take my chances.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020 ... e-pandemic
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#5 Post by Jeremy Holmes » June 10th, 2020, 9:54 pm

"it appears that having 1 "standard" drink per day carries similar risk as not having any drinks".

That is why I never have just 1 drink a day!
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#6 Post by Cris Whetstone » June 10th, 2020, 11:02 pm

M@tt G. wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 9:47 pm
IHME keeps getting their coronavirus projections way wrong. I’ll take my chances.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020 ... e-pandemic
Preliminary projections about a virus known to mankind for all of five months help you draw conclusions about decades worth of data across wide swaths of the worlds population on cancer?
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#7 Post by Chris Seiber » June 10th, 2020, 11:24 pm

Mike R wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 9:33 pm
Obviously I think we all somewhat know and accept that alcohol, including our beloved wine, is not a healthy hobby. I've chosen to accept this risk, and limit my wine consumption to a few days a week. I'm okay with a bit of risk if it means a life well lived.
If one’s overriding goal in life were simply to live as many years as possible, wine would be on a very long list of substances and activities one would never do.

If, on the other hand, you wanted the most joy and happiness in life ...

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#8 Post by J. Migone » June 11th, 2020, 4:20 am

Long boring life vs. there is a chance you won't live as long but enjoy it. I'll take the latter. You could also die in a car crash. Drink in moderation and enjoy your friends and family.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#9 Post by Brian Gilp » June 11th, 2020, 4:36 am

Roughly 38% of the US population will eventually be diagnosed with cancer. If we round that up to 40% and for the sake of discussion assume that is the 0 drink baseline, I real the graph to indicate that 2 drinks per day raises that ~10% to 44% and 3 drinks per day raises it ~25% to 50% disregarding the confidence bands. I would really love a more detailed graph at the lower end or a table.

But we know that the 38% includes more factors and the above analysis and that therefore the baseline from which these factors are applied is actually lower. If we assume that someone without genetic predisposition and other health factors is half of the above then 2 drinks per day (14 drinks per week) only raises your cancer risk from 20% to 22% and three drinks to 25%.

I have no idea if any of the above applies. I just always get annoyed at how data is published as to change in probability without consideration for the basis to which it should be applied. Obviously cancer is a severe problem and I like many have lost friends to it. I am not suggesting anyone should ignore the health impacts of alcohol or how it may change the risk of cancer.

Edited to add that based on the upper bound of the uncertainty at 15 drinks per day at over 4.5, the base to which this applies can be no higher than 22% and most likely lower as I doubt that the upper bound equates to 100% chance of cancer.
Last edited by Brian Gilp on June 11th, 2020, 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#10 Post by SteveG » June 11th, 2020, 4:47 am

Brian Gilp wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 4:36 am
Roughly 38% of the US population will eventually be diagnosed with cancer. If we round that up to 40% and for the sake of discussion assume that is the 0 drink baseline, I real the graph to indicate that 2 drinks per day raises that ~10% to 44% and 3 drinks per day raises it ~25% to 50% disregarding the confidence bands. I would really love a more detailed graph at the lower end or a table.

But we know that the 38% includes more factors and the above analysis and that therefore the baseline from which these factors are applied is actually lower. If we assume that someone without genetic predisposition and other health factors is half of the above then 2 drinks per day (14 drinks per week) only raises your cancer risk from 20% to 22% and three drinks to 25%.

I have no idea if any of the above applies. I just always get annoyed at how data is published as to change in probability without consideration for the basis to which it should be applied. Obviously cancer is a severe problem and I like many have lost friends to it. I am not suggesting anyone should ignore the health impacts of alcohol or how it may change the risk of cancer.
This makes sense to me, and while I certainly may be missing something, does that chart indicate that at fifteen drinks per day one's risk (shown by the"mean"(?) curve) is 3 times the base, so increased 200%?. I don't think I know anybody who drinks at that level, but that risk estimate strikes me as hilariously low.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#11 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » June 11th, 2020, 5:26 am

Just wait 10 years and the research will change.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#12 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 11th, 2020, 6:14 am

I am (for now at least) a cancer survivor. My consulting oncologist did not even suggest that I stop drinking. He said (three weeks ago) weight control is by far the most important thing, and pretty much everything else (other than tobacco use - I don't) is "very minor" (his words) in comparison.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#13 Post by Markus S » June 11th, 2020, 6:16 am

We all know alcohol is bad for us, as are: preserved meats, charred meats, plasticizers in our products, pesticides, the thousands of 'forever chemicals' per- and poly-fluoroalkyl substances, mercury in fish and water, lead in old water pipes and homes, gasoline and diesel emissions...

The questions is: what's gonna kill us? And we honestly don't know. But probably best to limit your exposure to anything that is a known bad goes without saying.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#14 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » June 11th, 2020, 7:00 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 6:14 am
I am (for now at least) a cancer survivor. My consulting oncologist did not even suggest that I stop drinking. He said (three weeks ago) weight control is by far the most important thing, and pretty much everything else (other than tobacco use - I don't) is "very minor" (his words) in comparison.
This is interesting to hear and makes sense to me. Obesity and metabolic syndrome seem to be the real drivers of almost all disease these days.

There are certainly better and worse choices on can make. Personally, I think of it in terms of what I call "poison load." We all consume things that can be considered poisons (not talking here about the things we can’t really control, like air quality). Alcohol is one of them. I also think sugar, soda, highly processed foods, trans fat, refined flour, and industrial seed oils, among other things, are poisons. Not all poisons are created equal, of course, but to keep things simple and life in balance and enjoyable, I try and control my overall poison load. I consume more alcohol than most people. I consume far, far less of those other poisons than most people. At least so far, my modest weight and robust good health seem to be positive signs.
Sort of ITB - my husband imports a small amount of sake and I help out

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#15 Post by Dennis Borczon » June 11th, 2020, 7:09 am

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 5:26 am
Just wait 10 years and the research will change.
Wait 6 weeks and the research will change. You mean if I stop drinking completely I'll get to live another 3-6 months? (on average). I don't know why anyone pays attention to this ridiculous back and forth anymore. Humans biologically are programmed to live to about 4 score years, give or take. Excuse me I have to go and eat my scrambled eggs now...

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#16 Post by Blake Brown » June 11th, 2020, 7:56 am

There is a school of thought that says that to deprive one of something they enjoy in healthy moderation is to create a stress in the mind and therefore the body that can lead to cancer.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#17 Post by Max S. » June 11th, 2020, 8:01 am

Cris Whetstone wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 11:02 pm
M@tt G. wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 9:47 pm
IHME keeps getting their coronavirus projections way wrong. I’ll take my chances.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020 ... e-pandemic
Preliminary projections about a virus known to mankind for all of five months help you draw conclusions about decades worth of data across wide swaths of the worlds population on cancer?
Cris, the way it works is if you're wrong once then you're always wrong. You don't get to be right ever again.

Moderation is key for alcohol consumption, just like everything else. Could you die from having a glass per day? Sure. Will you die from having 10 glasses per day? Probably. That same logic applies to cheeseburgers, stress in your life, and so on. Just be moderate, you'll get some enjoyment and you probably aren't going to kill yourself. Or at least not all that much quicker than you would normally have died.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#18 Post by DanielP » June 11th, 2020, 8:16 am

I look forward to all the extremely defensive replies
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#19 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 11th, 2020, 8:43 am

DanielP wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 8:16 am
I look forward to all the extremely defensive replies
Including your passive-aggressive reply here?
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#20 Post by DanielP » June 11th, 2020, 8:46 am

Nothing all that passive about it
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#21 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 11th, 2020, 8:48 am

If all the studies that have come out over the years were meant to be applied with immediate, rigorous and universal discipline, we would all have perished long ago.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#22 Post by Frank Murray III » June 11th, 2020, 8:57 am

For me, I agree with the POV that reflects to living life, finding joy. I do enough already to mitigate the effects of living, based on the way I eat, my exercise routine, my outlets like golf and gardening. Sure, I could cut alcohol and really give a deeper commitment but then I lose my joy. A glass a day, maybe two, sometimes a day skipped, maybe a second without wine and then back too enjoying it.

Balance and joy, we all gotta find our own answer and with wine, it's in my equation.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#23 Post by C. Mc Cart » June 11th, 2020, 8:58 am

Similar situation to David.
I'm 8 weeks out from my final radiation therapy for stage 1 cancer at the back of tongue (HPV 16 positive). I'm still healing, but my tastes have thankfully (mostly) returned already. My radiation oncologist knows I'm into wine and during my most recent telephone follow-up, said I'm fine to drink in moderation again (2/day). If the carcinoma had been caused by drinking or lifestyle perhaps his recommendation would be different, but as it was caused by HPV he sees little additional risk.
Could drinking alcohol decrease my cure rate (apparently between 85-90+%)? According to my docs, there's no evidence to suggest that, but perhaps there's a chance. Do I quit drinking wine, sell my cellar and voluntarily take away something in my life that provides infinite interest, education and most of all happiness, for an extra % of survival rate? When I lost all my tastes, quickly lost 25+lbs because I had zero desire to eat (food is truly disgusting without any flavour) and worried about not tasting anything ever again, it became VERY apparent to me how important food & wine are to me. I presume most here likely feel the same. That being said - proverbial YMMV.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#24 Post by Frank Murray III » June 11th, 2020, 9:03 am

Chris, you had to push the pause button, which has enabled you to thoughtfully understand and appreciate the 'why' of wine for you. I get it.

And, all the best in your recovery and way forward from cancer, too. [training.gif]
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#25 Post by C. Mc Cart » June 11th, 2020, 9:09 am

Cheers Frank. Your zoom sessions were a really helpful connection for me for a few weeks there, even if I couldn't participate fully.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#26 Post by John Davis » June 11th, 2020, 9:10 am

Well, something's got to kill you. Might as well be good wine.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#27 Post by Nate Simon » June 11th, 2020, 9:16 am

Worth noting that this organization also parrots the flimsy recommendation to “limit” red meat and jump on the “plant-based” train.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#28 Post by John Chapman » June 11th, 2020, 9:47 am

After my kidney transplant 18 years ago, I asked the surgeon about alcohol. He said alcohol should be avoided, it would very harmful, strongly advised against.

At my next check-up, I was seen by another surgeon so I asked him the same question. He replied "Oh Doc X is a health nut. My advice is don't drink so much that you forget to take your meds."

Second opinions are valuable.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#29 Post by brigcampbell » June 11th, 2020, 10:07 am

here you go! data

http://ghdx.healthdata.org/record/ihme- ... -1990-2016

Brian Gilp wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 4:36 am
Roughly 38% of the US population will eventually be diagnosed with cancer. If we round that up to 40% and for the sake of discussion assume that is the 0 drink baseline, I real the graph to indicate that 2 drinks per day raises that ~10% to 44% and 3 drinks per day raises it ~25% to 50% disregarding the confidence bands. I would really love a more detailed graph at the lower end or a table.

But we know that the 38% includes more factors and the above analysis and that therefore the baseline from which these factors are applied is actually lower. If we assume that someone without genetic predisposition and other health factors is half of the above then 2 drinks per day (14 drinks per week) only raises your cancer risk from 20% to 22% and three drinks to 25%.

I have no idea if any of the above applies. I just always get annoyed at how data is published as to change in probability without consideration for the basis to which it should be applied. Obviously cancer is a severe problem and I like many have lost friends to it. I am not suggesting anyone should ignore the health impacts of alcohol or how it may change the risk of cancer.

Edited to add that based on the upper bound of the uncertainty at 15 drinks per day at over 4.5, the base to which this applies can be no higher than 22% and most likely lower as I doubt that the upper bound equates to 100% chance of cancer.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#30 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 11th, 2020, 10:15 am

Nate Simon wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 9:16 am
Worth noting that this organization also parrots the flimsy recommendation to “limit” red meat and jump on the “plant-based” train.
While not relying on ACS for that info, doing just that has helped me lose 40 pounds since February - while still drinking my fair share of wine!
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#31 Post by Michael Martin » June 11th, 2020, 10:17 am

I listened to a panel of doctors a while back and someone asked what is the one thing you can do that is best for your body. The all said "exercise". So don't forget to walk around as you drink.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#32 Post by Nate Simon » June 11th, 2020, 10:27 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 10:15 am
Nate Simon wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 9:16 am
Worth noting that this organization also parrots the flimsy recommendation to “limit” red meat and jump on the “plant-based” train.
While not relying on ACS for that info, doing just that has helped me lose 40 pounds since February - while still drinking my fair share of wine!
This is maybe one of those YMMV things...I think any approach that gets us away from the Standard American Diet is largely a win.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#33 Post by Anton D » June 11th, 2020, 10:41 am

If it took them 5,000+ years to make a statistical connection, I'm not changing now.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#34 Post by Greg K » June 11th, 2020, 10:45 am

Michael Martin wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 10:17 am
I listened to a panel of doctors a while back and someone asked what is the one thing you can do that is best for your body. The all said "exercise". So don't forget to walk around as you drink.
Swirl your wine vigorously.
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#35 Post by ChrisJames » June 11th, 2020, 12:01 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 10:15 am
Nate Simon wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 9:16 am
Worth noting that this organization also parrots the flimsy recommendation to “limit” red meat and jump on the “plant-based” train.
While not relying on ACS for that info, doing just that has helped me lose 40 pounds since February - while still drinking my fair share of wine!
Interesting. And yet there are several diets (such as Adkins) that are high meat/zero carb models. That appealed to me because I love carbs, especially of the wheat variety. I lost tons of weight this way - and then put some back on when I returned to balanced eating. I think we can all agree that moderation is the key. Didn't the Greeks come up with that idea about 2500 years ago?
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D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 6:14 am
I am (for now at least) a cancer survivor. My consulting oncologist did not even suggest that I stop drinking. He said (three weeks ago) weight control is by far the most important thing, and pretty much everything else (other than tobacco use - I don't) is "very minor" (his words) in comparison.
This is interesting to hear and makes sense to me. Obesity and metabolic syndrome seem to be the real drivers of almost all disease these days.

There are certainly better and worse choices on can make. Personally, I think of it in terms of what I call "poison load." We all consume things that can be considered poisons (not talking here about the things we can’t really control, like air quality). Alcohol is one of them. I also think sugar, soda, highly processed foods, trans fat, refined flour, and industrial seed oils, among other things, are poisons. Not all poisons are created equal, of course, but to keep things simple and life in balance and enjoyable, I try and control my overall poison load. I consume more alcohol than most people. I consume far, far less of those other poisons than most people. At least so far, my modest weight and robust good health seem to be positive signs.
This is a great post. I do rather enjoy wheat and sugar, but I have the good fortune of being able to grow a good portion of my food (meat, eggs, fruit, vegetables). For the rest, we mostly buy raw, organic ingredients and make everything else by scratch. As much as possible, we don't eat any processed foods or foods with contain preservatives. And we split a bottle of wine a day (as in 12 ounces per person). And that is our poison. Twenty-seven years ago, I had to have brain surgery (attempting to fix a bad attitude, among other things). My Neurologist at the time told me to never drink alcohol again. I followed that for six months and have averaged two drinks a day ever since. All of those wonderful wines and beers helped define my quality of life (happiness). Now I am starting down the backside of the hill with all the physical and mental changes that entails. I think a lot about watching my grandparents and parents age and die and have come to the conclusion that daily sacrifice of pleasure now is probably not worth an extra year or two tacked on to the very end. [cheers.gif]

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#36 Post by Michael Martin » June 11th, 2020, 12:08 pm

I lost 10 lbs by just not eating breakfast everyday. 16/8 intermittent fasting. Easiest diet I have ever been on and the weight has stayed off. Eat and drink almost as much as you want in 8 hours, then don't eat for 16 hours.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#37 Post by Nate Simon » June 11th, 2020, 12:28 pm

Michael Martin wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 12:08 pm
I lost 10 lbs by just not eating breakfast everyday. 16/8 intermittent fasting. Easiest diet I have ever been on and the weight has stayed off. Eat and drink almost as much as you want in 8 hours, then don't eat for 16 hours.
100%. Closest thing to a “magic bullet” I’ve encountered.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#38 Post by Peter Petersen » June 11th, 2020, 3:10 pm

Nate Simon wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 12:28 pm
Michael Martin wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 12:08 pm
I lost 10 lbs by just not eating breakfast everyday. 16/8 intermittent fasting. Easiest diet I have ever been on and the weight has stayed off. Eat and drink almost as much as you want in 8 hours, then don't eat for 16 hours.
100%. Closest thing to a “magic bullet” I’ve encountered.
That’s what I’m doing. Not to lose weight as that is not an issue, but to regulate the chemistry of my body, stomach etc. It really works too, and makes me feel better as well.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#39 Post by jordan jacobs » June 11th, 2020, 3:18 pm

I’m just going to slowly back up, leave this thread and pretend I saw nothing. And definitely not say anything to my wife.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#40 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 11th, 2020, 3:31 pm

Calories are calories folks.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#41 Post by walter page » June 11th, 2020, 3:51 pm

I know that an anecdote is just that and nothing more but here goes. The only constants in my father’s diet were two fried eggs and as much bacon as humanly possible every morning and two Manhattans every night. Perhaps that killed him as he died two weeks ago ... seven weeks shy of his 103rd birthday.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#42 Post by Nate Simon » June 11th, 2020, 4:05 pm

Peter Petersen wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 3:10 pm
Nate Simon wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 12:28 pm
Michael Martin wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 12:08 pm
I lost 10 lbs by just not eating breakfast everyday. 16/8 intermittent fasting. Easiest diet I have ever been on and the weight has stayed off. Eat and drink almost as much as you want in 8 hours, then don't eat for 16 hours.
100%. Closest thing to a “magic bullet” I’ve encountered.
That’s what I’m doing. Not to lose weight as that is not an issue, but to regulate the chemistry of my body, stomach etc. It really works too, and makes me feel better as well.
My experience exactly.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#43 Post by ChrisJames » June 11th, 2020, 4:07 pm

walter page wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 3:51 pm
I know that an anecdote is just that and nothing more but here goes. The only constants in my father’s diet were two fried eggs and as much bacon as humanly possible every morning and two Manhattans every night. Perhaps that killed him as he died two weeks ago ... seven weeks shy of his 103rd birthday.
RIP

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#44 Post by Craig G » June 12th, 2020, 8:19 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 8:48 am
If all the studies that have come out over the years were meant to be applied with immediate, rigorous and universal discipline, we would all have perished long ago.
I see dead people.
“You need to look down to the bottom shelf where they keep the Fighting Cock” — Corey N.

C. Gle@son

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#45 Post by Kelly Walker » June 12th, 2020, 9:18 pm

I drink to prevent cancer
If you keep peeling back an onion you eventually end up with nothing.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#46 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 13th, 2020, 5:21 am

Kelly Walker wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 9:18 pm
I drink to prevent cancer
I drink to forget cancer.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#47 Post by Scott Brunson » June 13th, 2020, 6:13 am

...It just SEEMS longer
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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#48 Post by Kelly Walker » June 13th, 2020, 7:31 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 5:21 am
Kelly Walker wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 9:18 pm
I drink to prevent cancer
I drink to forget cancer.
[cheers.gif]
If you keep peeling back an onion you eventually end up with nothing.

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#49 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » June 13th, 2020, 10:29 am

Nate Simon wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 10:27 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 10:15 am
Nate Simon wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 9:16 am
Worth noting that this organization also parrots the flimsy recommendation to “limit” red meat and jump on the “plant-based” train.
While not relying on ACS for that info, doing just that has helped me lose 40 pounds since February - while still drinking my fair share of wine!
This is maybe one of those YMMV things...I think any approach that gets us away from the Standard American Diet is largely a win.
The fact is that virtually any diet can be effective for weight loss provided 3 things are true:

1. It creates an energy deficit.
2. It does not create a damaging hormonal situation, such as insulin resistance, which can heavily impact how calories are burned versus stored.
3. It is sustainable, which will vary quite a bit from person to person.

The part where the science gets very flimsy is the claim that limiting red meat and eating plant based is the "best" or "healthiest" diet.
Sort of ITB - my husband imports a small amount of sake and I help out

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Re: American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

#50 Post by Larry Stein » June 13th, 2020, 12:17 pm

I'm also a cancer survivor. Stage 3 intraductal carcinoma, a rarer, more aggressive form of prostate cancer. It didn't spread to the lymph nodes because I had the largest prostate the surgeon had ever seen. The tumor had too much tissue to work through. Surgery was last July. I was the talk of the Urology staff! No radiation or chemo. My PSA levels are imperceptible. Yes, I know I'm very lucky.

My surgeon never mentioned cutting out alcohol. In fact, I found out he liked wine so I gave him a nice bottle of Burgundy as a thank you!

I'm only about 10 pounds overweight which I consider pretty good at the age of 66. Blood pressure and cholesterol are normal. I eat a fairly balanced diet although I have a fondness for pretty much anything with the word "pork" in it.

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