American Cancer Society - no drinking allowed

[David_Bu3ker]

If all the studies that have come out over the years were meant to be applied with immediate, rigorous and universal discipline, we would all have perished long ago.

[Frank_Murray_III]

For me, I agree with the POV that reflects to living life, finding joy. I do enough already to mitigate the effects of living, based on the way I eat, my exercise routine, my outlets like golf and gardening. Sure, I could cut alcohol and really give a deeper commitment but then I lose my joy. A glass a day, maybe two, sometimes a day skipped, maybe a second without wine and then back too enjoying it.

Balance and joy, we all gotta find our own answer and with wine, it’s in my equation.

[C_Mc_Cart]

Similar situation to David.
I’m 8 weeks out from my final radiation therapy for stage 1 cancer at the back of tongue (HPV 16 positive). I’m still healing, but my tastes have thankfully (mostly) returned already. My radiation oncologist knows I’m into wine and during my most recent telephone follow-up, said I’m fine to drink in moderation again (2/day). If the carcinoma had been caused by drinking or lifestyle perhaps his recommendation would be different, but as it was caused by HPV he sees little additional risk.
Could drinking alcohol decrease my cure rate (apparently between 85-90+%)? According to my docs, there’s no evidence to suggest that, but perhaps there’s a chance. Do I quit drinking wine, sell my cellar and voluntarily take away something in my life that provides infinite interest, education and most of all happiness, for an extra % of survival rate? When I lost all my tastes, quickly lost 25+lbs because I had zero desire to eat (food is truly disgusting without any flavour) and worried about not tasting anything ever again, it became VERY apparent to me how important food & wine are to me. I presume most here likely feel the same. That being said - proverbial YMMV.

[Frank_Murray_III]

Chris, you had to push the pause button, which has enabled you to thoughtfully understand and appreciate the ‘why’ of wine for you. I get it.

And, all the best in your recovery and way forward from cancer, too.

[C_Mc_Cart]

Cheers Frank. Your zoom sessions were a really helpful connection for me for a few weeks there, even if I couldn’t participate fully.

[John_Davis]

Well, something’s got to kill you. Might as well be good wine.

[Nate_Simon]

Worth noting that this organization also parrots the flimsy recommendation to “limit” red meat and jump on the “plant-based” train.

[John_Chapman]

After my kidney transplant 18 years ago, I asked the surgeon about alcohol. He said alcohol should be avoided, it would very harmful, strongly advised against.

At my next check-up, I was seen by another surgeon so I asked him the same question. He replied “Oh Doc X is a health nut. My advice is don’t drink so much that you forget to take your meds.”

Second opinions are valuable.

[brigcampbell]

here you go! data

http://ghdx.healthdata.org/record/ihme-data/gbd-2016-alcohol-use-estimates-1990-2016

Roughly 38% of the US population will eventually be diagnosed with cancer. If we round that up to 40% and for the sake of discussion assume that is the 0 drink baseline, I real the graph to indicate that 2 drinks per day raises that ~10% to 44% and 3 drinks per day raises it ~25% to 50% disregarding the confidence bands. I would really love a more detailed graph at the lower end or a table.

But we know that the 38% includes more factors and the above analysis and that therefore the baseline from which these factors are applied is actually lower. If we assume that someone without genetic predisposition and other health factors is half of the above then 2 drinks per day (14 drinks per week) only raises your cancer risk from 20% to 22% and three drinks to 25%.

I have no idea if any of the above applies. I just always get annoyed at how data is published as to change in probability without consideration for the basis to which it should be applied. Obviously cancer is a severe problem and I like many have lost friends to it. I am not suggesting anyone should ignore the health impacts of alcohol or how it may change the risk of cancer.

Edited to add that based on the upper bound of the uncertainty at 15 drinks per day at over 4.5, the base to which this applies can be no higher than 22% and most likely lower as I doubt that the upper bound equates to 100% chance of cancer.

[David_Bu3ker]

Worth noting that this organization also parrots the flimsy recommendation to “limit” red meat and jump on the “plant-based” train.

While not relying on ACS for that info, doing just that has helped me lose 40 pounds since February - while still drinking my fair share of wine!

[Michael_Martin]

I listened to a panel of doctors a while back and someone asked what is the one thing you can do that is best for your body. The all said “exercise”. So don’t forget to walk around as you drink.

[Nate_Simon]

Worth noting that this organization also parrots the flimsy recommendation to “limit” red meat and jump on the “plant-based” train.

While not relying on ACS for that info, doing just that has helped me lose 40 pounds since February - while still drinking my fair share of wine!

This is maybe one of those YMMV things…I think any approach that gets us away from the Standard American Diet is largely a win.

[Anton_D]

If it took them 5,000+ years to make a statistical connection, I’m not changing now.

[Greg_K]

I listened to a panel of doctors a while back and someone asked what is the one thing you can do that is best for your body. The all said “exercise”. So don’t forget to walk around as you drink.

Swirl your wine vigorously.

[ChrisJames]

Worth noting that this organization also parrots the flimsy recommendation to “limit” red meat and jump on the “plant-based” train.

While not relying on ACS for that info, doing just that has helped me lose 40 pounds since February - while still drinking my fair share of wine!

Interesting. And yet there are several diets (such as Adkins) that are high meat/zero carb models. That appealed to me because I love carbs, especially of the wheat variety. I lost tons of weight this way - and then put some back on when I returned to balanced eating. I think we can all agree that moderation is the key. Didn’t the Greeks come up with that idea about 2500 years ago?

I am (for now at least) a cancer survivor. My consulting oncologist did not even suggest that I stop drinking. He said (three weeks ago) weight control is by far the most important thing, and pretty much everything else (other than tobacco use - I don’t) is “very minor” (his words) in comparison.

This is interesting to hear and makes sense to me. Obesity and metabolic syndrome seem to be the real drivers of almost all disease these days.

There are certainly better and worse choices on can make. Personally, I think of it in terms of what I call “poison load.” We all consume things that can be considered poisons (not talking here about the things we can’t really control, like air quality). Alcohol is one of them. I also think sugar, soda, highly processed foods, trans fat, refined flour, and industrial seed oils, among other things, are poisons. Not all poisons are created equal, of course, but to keep things simple and life in balance and enjoyable, I try and control my overall poison load. I consume more alcohol than most people. I consume far, far less of those other poisons than most people. At least so far, my modest weight and robust good health seem to be positive signs.

This is a great post. I do rather enjoy wheat and sugar, but I have the good fortune of being able to grow a good portion of my food (meat, eggs, fruit, vegetables). For the rest, we mostly buy raw, organic ingredients and make everything else by scratch. As much as possible, we don’t eat any processed foods or foods with contain preservatives. And we split a bottle of wine a day (as in 12 ounces per person). And that is our poison. Twenty-seven years ago, I had to have brain surgery (attempting to fix a bad attitude, among other things). My Neurologist at the time told me to never drink alcohol again. I followed that for six months and have averaged two drinks a day ever since. All of those wonderful wines and beers helped define my quality of life (happiness). Now I am starting down the backside of the hill with all the physical and mental changes that entails. I think a lot about watching my grandparents and parents age and die and have come to the conclusion that daily sacrifice of pleasure now is probably not worth an extra year or two tacked on to the very end.

[Michael_Martin]

I lost 10 lbs by just not eating breakfast everyday. 16/8 intermittent fasting. Easiest diet I have ever been on and the weight has stayed off. Eat and drink almost as much as you want in 8 hours, then don’t eat for 16 hours.

[Nate_Simon]

I lost 10 lbs by just not eating breakfast everyday. 16/8 intermittent fasting. Easiest diet I have ever been on and the weight has stayed off. Eat and drink almost as much as you want in 8 hours, then don’t eat for 16 hours.

100%. Closest thing to a “magic bullet” I’ve encountered.

[Peter_Petersen]

I lost 10 lbs by just not eating breakfast everyday. 16/8 intermittent fasting. Easiest diet I have ever been on and the weight has stayed off. Eat and drink almost as much as you want in 8 hours, then don’t eat for 16 hours.

100%. Closest thing to a “magic bullet” I’ve encountered.

That’s what I’m doing. Not to lose weight as that is not an issue, but to regulate the chemistry of my body, stomach etc. It really works too, and makes me feel better as well.

[jordan_jacobs]

I’m just going to slowly back up, leave this thread and pretend I saw nothing. And definitely not say anything to my wife.

[David_Bu3ker]

Calories are calories folks.