TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
c fu
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 32324
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Location: Pasadena
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 105 times

TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#1 Post by c fu »

  • 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côte-Rôtie (12/28/2020)
    I think we all know the 2015 Benetiere story and the highly variable bottles. Then the long delay in the 2016 release which ultimately ended up with none of it being imported. Rumors abound on why the 2015 and 2016 weren't labeled as cote rotie. Add in the 2014 Cordeloux that wasn't bottled (2014 Dolium was bottled and is fantastic), the public trust in Benetiere is justifiably at an all time low.

    The main importer for Benetiere, Robert Panzer at Down to Earth Wines, knows my love for all things Benetiere so he sent over a bottle of the 2017 Cote Rotie Cordeloux (yes! Cote rotie! not vdp!) for me to give my honest assessment of prior to release. Consider these notes a running diary on the wine - Tasted on pop and pour - the first hour - then 7 hours later. I packed away 4 4oz boston rounds for later tasting in the fridge. Consumed 8oz of the wine over the time period.

    2017 Benetiere Cote Rotie Cordeloux - THE NOSE IS INSANE. IN-FREAKING-SANE. One of the most compelling parts of Benetiere is how fragrant the nose is. The 2012 (one of my favorite young cote rotie) is similar to the 2017 on the nose - the nose is a volcanic eruption of aggressive violet, spice, tapenade and bright blue fruit. With air, you get the savoriness of cote rotie building to match the floral spice box. For the first 30 minutes, i was taking the tinest sips as I kept swirling the glass and obsessing over that nose.

    The palate is elegant weighing in at a mild 12.5% alcohol. The wine pulses from its vibrant core of cool acidity, the wine has depth and persistent sweet berry fruit on the mid palate deep into the finish. The mid palate shows a real clean purity of fruit. A flurry of cracked black pepper and roast meat linger on the finish. It's pretty crazy how much intensity the wine carries on its lithe frame. With air that finish gets broader and burlier- the fruit gets more concentrated and the tannin gets a jagged edge. There is a reductive element initially on the finish but it minimizes with air. I'm guessing a little more time in bottle will remove the reductive element.
Picture of the sample bottle - label is not the finished label - just for sample bottle purposes.
Photo Dec 28, 3 20 26 PM.jpg

DanielP
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 948
Joined: October 5th, 2015, 7:21 pm
Location: NYC
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#2 Post by DanielP »

Do you know more about the story with the 2016s? I don't really understand why a release delay wouldn't just mean an importation delay rather than nothing getting imported at all.
P@ik

User avatar
c fu
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 32324
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Location: Pasadena
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#3 Post by c fu »

DanielP wrote: December 28th, 2020, 8:35 pm Do you know more about the story with the 2016s? I don't really understand why a release delay wouldn't just mean an importation delay rather than nothing getting imported at all.
I'm sure Robert can speak to his decision on not bringing it in, but I don't know why the Source didn't. I don't think Polaner is importing Benetiere anymore period.
Ch@rlie F|_|
"Roulot is Roulot"©

ITB -Salt Vine Wines

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/clayfu.wine

User avatar
Robert M yers
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3592
Joined: March 10th, 2010, 8:24 pm
Location: Cleveland
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#4 Post by Robert M yers »

Can I exchange my bottles of 15 for 17? I am glad to hear that they sound back on track, but seriously not sure whether I jump back in after that thousand dollar 2015 fiasco.

User avatar
c fu
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 32324
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Location: Pasadena
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#5 Post by c fu »

Robert M yers wrote: December 28th, 2020, 9:19 pm Can I exchange my bottles of 15 for 17? I am glad to hear that they sound back on track, but seriously not sure whether I jump back in after that thousand dollar 2015 fiasco.
i thought you didn't have issues with the 15s when you opened yours? (i'm re-reading the 2015 thread). I know Alfert enjoyed his.
Ch@rlie F|_|
"Roulot is Roulot"©

ITB -Salt Vine Wines

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/clayfu.wine

User avatar
Alan Rath
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 22436
Joined: April 24th, 2009, 12:45 am
Location: Bay Area, CA. Sometimes out to lunch.
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#6 Post by Alan Rath »

Cool note, looking forward to the follow up. One question: can a flurry linger? John Morris will want to know neener
I'm just one lost soul, swimming in a fish bowl, year after year

User avatar
c fu
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 32324
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Location: Pasadena
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#7 Post by c fu »

Alan Rath wrote: December 28th, 2020, 9:27 pm Cool note, looking forward to the follow up. One question: can a flurry linger? John Morris will want to know neener
I don't know and I don't care. [snort.gif]
Ch@rlie F|_|
"Roulot is Roulot"©

ITB -Salt Vine Wines

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/clayfu.wine

User avatar
Robert M yers
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3592
Joined: March 10th, 2010, 8:24 pm
Location: Cleveland
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#8 Post by Robert M yers »

Hmmm, I remember the wine being just ok, not flawed just lackluster...muted? Maybe my mind is tainted from the discussion? Even if the wine is sound I kind of feel (maybe I shouldn’t) like what’s in the bottle may not be what was intended. Hard to know as I don’t think we ever got the final story. I’ll have a re-read of that discussion as well.
Thanks for the early look.

Torbjørn Dahlgren
Posts: 6
Joined: December 11th, 2019, 11:08 am
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#9 Post by Torbjørn Dahlgren »

Thanks for your update! Now begins the quest to get some bottles...

C. Keller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 300
Joined: March 31st, 2018, 6:19 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#10 Post by C. Keller »

Any idea when this hits the US market?
Chris

User avatar
c fu
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 32324
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Location: Pasadena
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#11 Post by c fu »

C. Keller wrote: December 29th, 2020, 6:26 am Any idea when this hits the US market?
Panzer told me sale will be next month some time, but won't hit the market until post tariffs most likely. Not sure about any other importer
Ch@rlie F|_|
"Roulot is Roulot"©

ITB -Salt Vine Wines

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/clayfu.wine

User avatar
RyanC
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4005
Joined: June 2nd, 2009, 4:20 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#12 Post by RyanC »

Thanks for the update - very helpful post. I'm almost certainly a buyer, but I would like to hear more about what happened with the '16s and if there's any more color on the '15.
C@ughey

Charlie Carnes
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 2838
Joined: April 30th, 2010, 2:13 pm
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#13 Post by Charlie Carnes »

Charlie, love your extended note. I might have to seek a few out when they drop!!
So shines a good deed in a weary world!

User avatar
Warren Taranow
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2839
Joined: June 30th, 2009, 8:24 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#14 Post by Warren Taranow »

Charlie,
I just dipped my toes into the 15's, not wanting to risk it. I'll sample a few 2017's based on your TN; I had intended to skip them. Hopefully Robert waits to list them until I end my spending moratorium.
I also haven't bought Chidaine since the 2014 fiasco left me holding way more than I'd like, but that's another (controversial) thread.
Cheers,
Warren
"If the only prayer you ever uttered was thank you, it would suffice."
Meister Eckhart c. 1260 – c. 1328

CT - WST

User avatar
c fu
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 32324
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Location: Pasadena
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#15 Post by c fu »

Warren Taranow wrote: December 29th, 2020, 2:03 pm Charlie,
I just dipped my toes into the 15's, not wanting to risk it. I'll sample a few 2017's based on your TN; I had intended to skip them. Hopefully Robert waits to list them until I end my spending moratorium.
I also haven't bought Chidaine since the 2014 fiasco left me holding way more than I'd like, but that's another (controversial) thread.
Cheers,
Warren
yeah. I tasted some of the guys on it yesterday and they had the same response that they were warry after 2015 but in general they were very non plus about 2015 Northern Rhone. Hopefully they'll chime in on their thoughts on the wine.
Ch@rlie F|_|
"Roulot is Roulot"©

ITB -Salt Vine Wines

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/clayfu.wine

ybarselah
Posts: 6510
Joined: July 15th, 2009, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#16 Post by ybarselah »

omg this will be epic. thanks for the updates charlie.
Yaacov (ITB)

User avatar
Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡
Posts: 2577
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 1:13 pm
Location: New York, NY
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#17 Post by Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ »

Yes!
bleh | meh - | meh | meh + | eh? | ehh | yeah | yeah! | OHYEAH

User avatar
Daniel McIntosh
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1805
Joined: June 3rd, 2009, 8:39 am
Location: The Peoples Republic of South Minneapolis
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#18 Post by Daniel McIntosh »

I bought 3 of the 2015. Opened one maybe a year ago. I would have waited but all the fuss around it compelled me to give it a try. Absolutely no issues with it. It was very fine. I

User avatar
Peter Kleban
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 13837
Joined: February 14th, 2010, 8:21 pm
Location: Vacationland (AKA Maine, USA)
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#19 Post by Peter Kleban »

Yes, I have two '15s downstairs but given all the TNs indicating they are OK but too young, I intend to wait some time until I open one.
Bob Wood:
"Peter..your well-reasoned words were a waste of time."
WsOTY:
Felettig Chamb-Mus VV '14
Pépière Muscadet Briords '09
Volpaia Chianti Class '18
Lignier Morey St Denis 1er Ormes '14
Collestefano Verdicchio di M '19
Pépière Muscadet Briords '19
Bêcheur PN '14
Virage '07
Ampeau Volnay 1er Santenots '99
Sorpasso Carema '16
Rosa Barbera '17

ybarselah
Posts: 6510
Joined: July 15th, 2009, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#20 Post by ybarselah »

not sure this matters at this point given what clearly happened in the interim, but JLL rated the 2015, 2016, and 2017 all very highly in a march of 2018 tasting (wrote that the 2016 would be bottled in April 2018 which I guess never happened?). not notes on 2018 or 2019 - yet.

unsure if anyone else writes about these professionally.
Last edited by ybarselah on December 31st, 2020, 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yaacov (ITB)

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 39778
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am
Location: Connecticut
Has thanked: 106 times
Been thanked: 274 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#21 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

ybarselah wrote: December 30th, 2020, 5:14 pm not sure this matters at this point given what clearly happened in the interim, but JLL rated the 2015, 2016, and 2017 all very highly in a march of 2018 tasting (wrote that the 2016 would be bottled in April 2016 which I guess never happened?). not notes on 2018 or 2019 - yet.

unsure if anyone else writes about these professionally.
The 2016 bottled in April 2016???
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

Greg K
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1904
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 3:16 pm
Location: New York
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#22 Post by Greg K »

Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote: December 30th, 2020, 11:21 am Yes!
We may have to do another dinner to check in on the current Benetiere vitnage.......

Image
Greg Kahn

User avatar
Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡
Posts: 2577
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 1:13 pm
Location: New York, NY
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#23 Post by Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ »

Greg K wrote: December 30th, 2020, 6:52 pm
Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote: December 30th, 2020, 11:21 am Yes!
We may have to do another dinner to check in on the current Benetiere vitnage.......

Image
Might? [cheers.gif]
bleh | meh - | meh | meh + | eh? | ehh | yeah | yeah! | OHYEAH

D@ve D y r 0 f f
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1961
Joined: May 14th, 2016, 9:22 am
Location: St. Louis, MO
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#24 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f »

D@vid Bu3ker wrote: December 30th, 2020, 5:19 pm
ybarselah wrote: December 30th, 2020, 5:14 pm not sure this matters at this point given what clearly happened in the interim, but JLL rated the 2015, 2016, and 2017 all very highly in a march of 2018 tasting (wrote that the 2016 would be bottled in April 2016 which I guess never happened?). not notes on 2018 or 2019 - yet.

unsure if anyone else writes about these professionally.
The 2016 bottled in April 2016???
To be bottled April 2018, per the March 2018 JLL note.

ybarselah
Posts: 6510
Joined: July 15th, 2009, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#25 Post by ybarselah »

D@vid Bu3ker wrote: December 30th, 2020, 5:19 pm
ybarselah wrote: December 30th, 2020, 5:14 pm not sure this matters at this point given what clearly happened in the interim, but JLL rated the 2015, 2016, and 2017 all very highly in a march of 2018 tasting (wrote that the 2016 would be bottled in April 2016 which I guess never happened?). not notes on 2018 or 2019 - yet.

unsure if anyone else writes about these professionally.
The 2016 bottled in April 2016???
ha - edited thanks for catching. point is, no updates and lies about paperwork is the last update we have.
Yaacov (ITB)

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 39778
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am
Location: Connecticut
Has thanked: 106 times
Been thanked: 274 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#26 Post by D@vid Bu3ker »

ybarselah wrote: December 31st, 2020, 8:43 am
D@vid Bu3ker wrote: December 30th, 2020, 5:19 pm
ybarselah wrote: December 30th, 2020, 5:14 pm not sure this matters at this point given what clearly happened in the interim, but JLL rated the 2015, 2016, and 2017 all very highly in a march of 2018 tasting (wrote that the 2016 would be bottled in April 2016 which I guess never happened?). not notes on 2018 or 2019 - yet.

unsure if anyone else writes about these professionally.
The 2016 bottled in April 2016???
ha - edited thanks for catching. point is, no updates and lies about paperwork is the last update we have.
Yes, but the 2015 is quite good, if young. I would suspect the 2016 could have turned out OK, but maybe something happened.

I'm no longer a buyer, as I just don't like (any) Cote Rotie as much as other wines, but to go back to retreading the prior thread is pointless.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

ybarselah
Posts: 6510
Joined: July 15th, 2009, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#27 Post by ybarselah »

well, i like cote-rotie a lot, so i'm still interested lol. these two sentences did standout:

I think we all know the 2015 Benetiere story and the highly variable bottles. Then the long delay in the 2016 release which ultimately ended up with none of it being imported.

the acknowledgment or at least mention of "highly variable bottles" seems like a big deal. the long delay of the 2016 also interesting as there's no evidence that it even exists. are there listings for it in France or UK? when I asked The Source, they said they hadn't purchased it yet. given the review from JLL and the vintage generally being excellent, it's odd that a "long delay" in releasing the wine should result in it not being imported into the USA. if the wine exists, i'd imagine they'd want to sell it.
Yaacov (ITB)

User avatar
J. Galang
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1441
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 10:26 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#28 Post by J. Galang »

Got the email form Robert Panzer regarding 2017 last 01/07, replied within less than 30 minutes but have not heard back at all. Usually Robert responds very quickly, maybe too many people ordered at the same time?

[dontknow.gif] [dontknow.gif]
J0€1 Galang

User avatar
Robert M yers
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3592
Joined: March 10th, 2010, 8:24 pm
Location: Cleveland
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#29 Post by Robert M yers »

J. Galang wrote: January 12th, 2021, 8:18 pm Got the email form Robert Panzer regarding 2017 last 01/07, replied within less than 30 minutes but have not heard back at all. Usually Robert responds very quickly, maybe too many people ordered at the same time?

[dontknow.gif] [dontknow.gif]
He doesn’t sell based on response time like Envoyer and others. Usually when there are allocated items involved (Dolium) you won’t Hear back until the end of the ordering window. I think he allows all the orders to come in and then parcels the limited stuff up as best as possible. I haven’t heard back yet either and won’t expect to for a couple more days I’d imagine.

Dennis Borczon
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 845
Joined: January 28th, 2011, 2:46 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#30 Post by Dennis Borczon »

I just drank the 15 that I got from Rob out of curiosity. It clearly is not the explosive style description of the 17. However it is quite young and there is a lot of structure with iron and more savory notes in the background. I coravined it down to 1/3 of a bottle and plan to pull the cork this week to finish. Found it quite satisfactory and needing time, no obvious flaws or deteriorating fruit, just comes across as muted. Will give the last 1/3 some decant time and re evaluate. Judgment deferred. I did put in a modest order with Rob for the 17s, purely based on his trustworthiness as a vendor.

User avatar
c fu
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 32324
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Location: Pasadena
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#31 Post by c fu »

ybarselah wrote: December 31st, 2020, 9:17 am well, i like cote-rotie a lot, so i'm still interested lol. these two sentences did standout:

I think we all know the 2015 Benetiere story and the highly variable bottles. Then the long delay in the 2016 release which ultimately ended up with none of it being imported.

the acknowledgment or at least mention of "highly variable bottles" seems like a big deal. the long delay of the 2016 also interesting as there's no evidence that it even exists. are there listings for it in France or UK? when I asked The Source, they said they hadn't purchased it yet. given the review from JLL and the vintage generally being excellent, it's odd that a "long delay" in releasing the wine should result in it not being imported into the USA. if the wine exists, i'd imagine they'd want to sell it.
I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt that they had bad bottles. I personally haven't experienced it and many others haven't, but i'm not going to dismiss the fact that Polaner didn't like the wine they had. My bottles from Panzer had no problems.
Ch@rlie F|_|
"Roulot is Roulot"©

ITB -Salt Vine Wines

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/clayfu.wine

User avatar
Alan Rath
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 22436
Joined: April 24th, 2009, 12:45 am
Location: Bay Area, CA. Sometimes out to lunch.
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: TN: 2017 Marie et Pierre Bénetière Côte-Rôtie Cordeloux

#32 Post by Alan Rath »

What’s the total production? Does he blend everything before bottling, or bottle in lots? As I pointed out a while back in my slow-ox thread, just dumping a bunch of barrels into a tank, without plenty of active stirring, won’t give you a homogeneous wine.
I'm just one lost soul, swimming in a fish bowl, year after year

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”