New Espresso Machine

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ybarselah
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#151 Post by ybarselah » May 7th, 2019, 6:27 am

darren as a current and still satisfied breville owner, i cannot imagine the sheer nirvana of upgrading to a la marzocco. wow. use it in good health. i am curious. aside from the price, what turned you away from the GS3? which is my current dream
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#152 Post by Darren Leininger » May 7th, 2019, 11:28 am

ybarselah wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 6:27 am
darren as a current and still satisfied breville owner, i cannot imagine the sheer nirvana of upgrading to a la marzocco. wow. use it in good health. i am curious. aside from the price, what turned you away from the GS3? which is my current dream
So, in the end, it came down to practicality. I was actually prepared to buy a Slayer or GS3. Some guys buy fast cars, fast bikes or fast boats when they turn 50, I wanted a cool ass espresso machine. Fact is, that after test driving the GS3, it did not pull a better shot. Sure it has some cool features but none were so compelling that I couldn't do without them for the added fare. As I mentioned with the Slayer, the machines with the added features/variables tend to be finicky. In one example, the guru I was working with told how a minor pressure change on the Slayer resulted in necessary adjustments to water temp, grind and shot time to achieve the desired shot. "Unnecessary endless tinkering" is how he described it. In the end, I opted for simple but damn good, knowing that I'll get to nirvana with the Linea Mini and some experience. The relative cost was a bonus!
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#153 Post by ybarselah » May 7th, 2019, 11:35 am

that all makes sense - to the extent any of this makes sense, lol. what's your grinder situation?
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#154 Post by Darren Leininger » May 7th, 2019, 12:19 pm

ybarselah wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 11:35 am
what's your grinder situation?
Mazzer Mini, flat steel burs, manual doser.
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#155 Post by JDavisRoby » May 7th, 2019, 12:32 pm

Do you intend to buy locally roasted espresso or ship it in?

I’m lucky to live in a town that has a great coffee roasters and can get solid fresh roasted as I don’t think there is any better way. One of our local roasters won the US Roasting Championship last year.

I’d love to have a espresso machine along these lines but the kitchen counter space wouldn’t allow for it. I also have about every way to make drip/pour over coffee so if I want a great shot of espresso I visited a few of the local shops.

Coffee was my first beverage love. Got about as deep into it as I am now with wine. Had stops with craft beer and bourbon in between but coffee is still what I go back to.
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#156 Post by Phil Smith » May 8th, 2019, 2:02 pm

Darren Leininger wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 11:28 am
ybarselah wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 6:27 am
darren as a current and still satisfied breville owner, i cannot imagine the sheer nirvana of upgrading to a la marzocco. wow. use it in good health. i am curious. aside from the price, what turned you away from the GS3? which is my current dream
So, in the end, it came down to practicality. I was actually prepared to buy a Slayer or GS3. Some guys buy fast cars, fast bikes or fast boats when they turn 50, I wanted a cool ass espresso machine. Fact is, that after test driving the GS3, it did not pull a better shot. Sure it has some cool features but none were so compelling that I couldn't do without them for the added fare. As I mentioned with the Slayer, the machines with the added features/variables tend to be finicky. In one example, the guru I was working with told how a minor pressure change on the Slayer resulted in necessary adjustments to water temp, grind and shot time to achieve the desired shot. "Unnecessary endless tinkering" is how he described it. In the end, I opted for simple but damn good, knowing that I'll get to nirvana with the Linea Mini and some experience. The relative cost was a bonus!
Were you able to plumb it in? I know they offer a separate kit for the Linea Mini but have heard it's a bit finicky.

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Re: New Espresso Machine

#157 Post by Sarah Kirschbaum » May 8th, 2019, 3:10 pm

Darren Leininger wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 12:19 pm
ybarselah wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 11:35 am
what's your grinder situation?
Mazzer Mini, flat steel burs, manual doser.
Love our Mazzer Mini. My husband can't do without it. He even packs the darn thing up and totes it to the NJ shore every year, just for drip coffee at the rental, which is something considering how NOT mini it actually is.

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Re: New Espresso Machine

#158 Post by Darren Leininger » May 8th, 2019, 5:29 pm

Phil Smith wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 2:02 pm
Darren Leininger wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 11:28 am
ybarselah wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 6:27 am
darren as a current and still satisfied breville owner, i cannot imagine the sheer nirvana of upgrading to a la marzocco. wow. use it in good health. i am curious. aside from the price, what turned you away from the GS3? which is my current dream
So, in the end, it came down to practicality. I was actually prepared to buy a Slayer or GS3. Some guys buy fast cars, fast bikes or fast boats when they turn 50, I wanted a cool ass espresso machine. Fact is, that after test driving the GS3, it did not pull a better shot. Sure it has some cool features but none were so compelling that I couldn't do without them for the added fare. As I mentioned with the Slayer, the machines with the added features/variables tend to be finicky. In one example, the guru I was working with told how a minor pressure change on the Slayer resulted in necessary adjustments to water temp, grind and shot time to achieve the desired shot. "Unnecessary endless tinkering" is how he described it. In the end, I opted for simple but damn good, knowing that I'll get to nirvana with the Linea Mini and some experience. The relative cost was a bonus!
Were you able to plumb it in? I know they offer a separate kit for the Linea Mini but have heard it's a bit finicky.
Not yet. Our city water sucks so I'm using bottled in the reservoir. I have looked into it and may someday plumb it in with a filter system, but for now it's easy enough to keep the reservoir filled.
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#159 Post by Kenny H » May 8th, 2019, 6:52 pm

Darren Leininger wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 11:28 am
ybarselah wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 6:27 am
darren as a current and still satisfied breville owner, i cannot imagine the sheer nirvana of upgrading to a la marzocco. wow. use it in good health. i am curious. aside from the price, what turned you away from the GS3? which is my current dream
So, in the end, it came down to practicality. I was actually prepared to buy a Slayer or GS3. Some guys buy fast cars, fast bikes or fast boats when they turn 50, I wanted a cool ass espresso machine. Fact is, that after test driving the GS3, it did not pull a better shot. Sure it has some cool features but none were so compelling that I couldn't do without them for the added fare. As I mentioned with the Slayer, the machines with the added features/variables tend to be finicky. In one example, the guru I was working with told how a minor pressure change on the Slayer resulted in necessary adjustments to water temp, grind and shot time to achieve the desired shot. "Unnecessary endless tinkering" is how he described it. In the end, I opted for simple but damn good, knowing that I'll get to nirvana with the Linea Mini and some experience. The relative cost was a bonus!
Jealous but great info! I am a couple years out on this. Breville grinder and double boiler make good stuff, and just like bikes, I like to upgrade the whole shooting match at one time so I get the full effect. Can't wait!
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#160 Post by Evan Pontoriero » May 8th, 2019, 7:30 pm

Click to see spoiler:
Stumbled upon this in active topics. I bought and enjoy the Breville machine. Would like the double boiler version but oh well. Anyway, it made me think of my former business partner and ILM co-worker that started his own high end design firm focusing on coffee products. I haven't talked to him in years but here is his site. He was a big Alesssi fan as you can tell from some of the designs. The burr grinder is super cool. If you buy, tell him I sent you LOL.

https://craiglyn.com/product/hg-1/
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Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#161 Post by Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ » August 21st, 2019, 11:58 am

Have never been an espresso guy but out of demand bought the bullet for the office and got a Breville Bambino Plus. So far so good! Getting the tamp density/pressure down. Think I need to upgrade my Capresso Infiniti Burr for finer powder...

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Re: New Espresso Machine

#162 Post by JDavisRoby » December 7th, 2019, 6:37 am

Anyone familiar with a Flair Espresso manual machine?

https://www.flairespresso.com/brewing

My brother has requested one as a Christmas gift. Curious if anyone has any experience.
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#163 Post by Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ » January 22nd, 2020, 8:29 am


ybarselah
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#164 Post by ybarselah » January 22nd, 2020, 9:26 am

Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 8:29 am
Interesting article:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... -espresso/
super interesting - you really need to click through to the paper (the headline is comically ridiculous). very much worth a read, especially when they describe the on-premise experiments and then the real-world cafe uses.

this falls into a category of culinary stuff that we all think is right or true and then we find out that it's not necessarily the case.

thanks for posting.
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#165 Post by Dennis Atick » January 22nd, 2020, 11:02 am

ybarselah wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 9:26 am
Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 8:29 am
Interesting article:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... -espresso/
super interesting - you really need to click through to the paper (the headline is comically ridiculous). very much worth a read, especially when they describe the on-premise experiments and then the real-world cafe uses.

this falls into a category of culinary stuff that we all think is right or true and then we find out that it's not necessarily the case.

thanks for posting.
Agreed! Thanks for posting. This would seem to qualify as groundbreaking is it presents evidence that is contrary to everything most espresso folks believe as holy grail stuff for pulling good shots. I got a new Breville Dual Boiler about 6 months ago and have been very happy with my pulls since I got dialed in. But I am damn sure about to experiment anew with the info in this article. Thanks Faryan!
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#166 Post by Ron Slye » January 22nd, 2020, 11:28 am

I am curious about more detail on the study. My experience (and I admit I have not done a deep dive on this) is finding the sweet spot between too coarse (which results in long, watery pulls), and too fine (which results in short or no pulls, and sometimes clogged pulls). When I combine this with the standard ~22 seconds per shot (which my Breville double broiler is programmed to), I feel like I can find the sweet spot with my grinder. I have not really spoken about this with baristas, but I am assuming that every barista would concede that too fine a grind is not good. So I am wondering if the grind that I am settling on would be considered "too fine" or not, or whether I have backed into the same sweet spot that the author's have discovered? I will also say that different people have different preference on the concentration of the pull they want. So some prefer a more ristretto style -- which I assume means a finer grain? Anyway, I am curious to know what the best outcome is (according to the study authors) on the ideal amount of liquid in x amount of time -- that would seem to provide some guidance on how to determine if one's grind is too fine or too coarse.

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Re: New Espresso Machine

#167 Post by ybarselah » January 22nd, 2020, 11:29 am

Dennis Atick wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 11:02 am
ybarselah wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 9:26 am
Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 8:29 am
Interesting article:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... -espresso/
super interesting - you really need to click through to the paper (the headline is comically ridiculous). very much worth a read, especially when they describe the on-premise experiments and then the real-world cafe uses.

this falls into a category of culinary stuff that we all think is right or true and then we find out that it's not necessarily the case.

thanks for posting.
Agreed! Thanks for posting. This would seem to qualify as groundbreaking is it presents evidence that is contrary to everything most espresso folks believe as holy grail stuff for pulling good shots. I got a new Breville Dual Boiler about 6 months ago and have been very happy with my pulls since I got dialed in. But I am damn sure about to experiment anew with the info in this article. Thanks Faryan!
well, yes and no; if you read through there are tons of caveats that they come out and say they don't account for. for example, they acknowledge pre-infusion as a thing that matters but then don't really fit into their analysis (this is significant because so much of their analysis is about extraction efficiency). the paper is really about using a lot of math and tech to measure things that they deem important in an effort to show how you can theoretically use less coffee to achieve same/similar results.
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#168 Post by ybarselah » January 22nd, 2020, 11:33 am

Ron Slye wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 11:28 am
I am curious about more detail on the study. My experience (and I admit I have not done a deep dive on this) is finding the sweet spot between too coarse (which results in long, watery pulls), and too fine (which results in short or no pulls, and sometimes clogged pulls). When I combine this with the standard ~22 seconds per shot (which my Breville double broiler is programmed to), I feel like I can find the sweet spot with my grinder. I have not really spoken about this with baristas, but I am assuming that every barista would concede that too fine a grind is not good. So I am wondering if the grind that I am settling on would be considered "too fine" or not, or whether I have backed into the same sweet spot that the author's have discovered? I will also say that different people have different preference on the concentration of the pull they want. So some prefer a more ristretto style -- which I assume means a finer grain? Anyway, I am curious to know what the best outcome is (according to the study authors) on the ideal amount of liquid in x amount of time -- that would seem to provide some guidance on how to determine if one's grind is too fine or too coarse.
all of this is correct and they go to great pains to prove why finer grains will choke the system - duh. i found this line hysterical: "These results indicate that the relationship between shot time is linear (Figure 4A); with a coarser grind setting resulting in shorter shot times." Gee, thanks?

as a fellow breville db user, i much prefer the manual button vs the presets. play around with the pre- time and pressure as well.
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#169 Post by Dennis Atick » January 22nd, 2020, 11:36 am

ybarselah wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 11:29 am
Dennis Atick wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 11:02 am
ybarselah wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 9:26 am


super interesting - you really need to click through to the paper (the headline is comically ridiculous). very much worth a read, especially when they describe the on-premise experiments and then the real-world cafe uses.

this falls into a category of culinary stuff that we all think is right or true and then we find out that it's not necessarily the case.

thanks for posting.
Agreed! Thanks for posting. This would seem to qualify as groundbreaking is it presents evidence that is contrary to everything most espresso folks believe as holy grail stuff for pulling good shots. I got a new Breville Dual Boiler about 6 months ago and have been very happy with my pulls since I got dialed in. But I am damn sure about to experiment anew with the info in this article. Thanks Faryan!
well, yes and no; if you read through there are tons of caveats that they come out and say they don't account for. for example, they acknowledge pre-infusion as a thing that matters but then don't really fit into their analysis (this is significant because so much of their analysis is about extraction efficiency). the paper is really about using a lot of math and tech to measure things that they deem important in an effort to show how you can theoretically use less coffee to achieve same/similar results.
I get it (well, not the Math, if I'm being honest). I'm interested in the reproducibility of a good shot with a coarser grind at 15g in and 30 out at 14seconds. I am doing very fine grind and 18.5/39-40 at 26-30 seconds and have been pretty happy. We'll see.
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Re: New Espresso Machine

#170 Post by Ron Slye » January 22nd, 2020, 1:05 pm

Ah. I was confused about some of the comments here but realize I did not click on the link to the actual paper. I thought all of this was based on the news article that the original link connected to. Now I realize there is a good deal more here. Not sure if I will take the time to wade through it, but that is a different issue. Thanks for posting this.

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Re: New Espresso Machine

#171 Post by ybarselah » January 23rd, 2020, 8:41 am

Ron Slye wrote:
January 22nd, 2020, 1:05 pm
Ah. I was confused about some of the comments here but realize I did not click on the link to the actual paper. I thought all of this was based on the news article that the original link connected to. Now I realize there is a good deal more here. Not sure if I will take the time to wade through it, but that is a different issue. Thanks for posting this.
like any academic paper, read from the bottom up to get the most value. lol
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