2012 Huet secs have shit the bed

[Mel_Knox]

We see reports of people drinking their mid 80s white Burgundies and these folks are happy as clams. Not that we really know if clams are happy.
But somewhere around 1996 things changed in the Cote d Or and there should be no surprise if things changed elsewhere.

[R_Frankel]

I have some of these (been buying mostly Le Mont sec since 2010) and will be sad if some bottles are bad. I’ll pop a ‘12 and ‘13 soon to see.

I have opened a ‘12 as recently as last year and it was fine, as expected. Any my stash of ‘02s (last one consumed in 2016) were all good.

I’m not saying there’s no problem. But it’s not clear there’s a universal one. At least the prices on these are nothing like Grand Cru White Burg!

[Viet_Ly]

My 2005s went south relatively quickly. Premox?

We really need to get off this premox hysteria, people. There’s only been one known vintage where the domaine had widespread issues with it and that was 2002. Some things to remember are that 1) Chenin tends to showy oxy with some age on it, 2) the main culprit behind bottles that show advanced is poor storage somewhere in the chain, 3) Premox in whites pretty much show up consistently in the 7-9 year age mark after vintage, be it White Burgs, Alsatian Riesling, Loire Chenin, etc. and then you have to look at global reports, not specific markets so you can get a more accurate take on if a problem exists, 4) Vintages matter.

Thanks for your post Brad. I found it very helpful due to my inexperience with these wines.

Here are my notes from two recent bottles of 2014 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Clos du Bourg:

8/2/2018 - I LIKE THIS WINE: (Edit)
Lemon curd highlighted with some stone/mineral then comes a touch of honey/waxiness. High acid. I preferred this on the cooler side. As the temp came up the alcohol started to peek out. I really enjoyed this wine for my first Huet. Good wine for food. Purchased a few more to see how things change with age.

5/2/2019 - I WROTE: (Edit)
Second bottle a let down from my first due to the hint of oxidation. Initially served too cold, as the wine warmed the fruit opened up and the wine was much better but the bit of oxidation in the background was still there (but not noticed by others at the dinner). I was reminded that sometimes when we get too analytical it can take away from the enjoyment of the wine. In any case, I hope my other bottles fare better. Will probably pop those sooner than later based on this experience.

Maybe based on this thread I won’t jump the gun so quickly for my other bottles.

[Mel_Knox]

https://www.newbordeaux.com/dubourdieu-premox-in-whites

Speaking of honey and waxiness…

[Peter_Valiquette]

Any issues with the demi-sec or moelleux?

[John_Morris]

Premox in whites pretty much show up consistently in the 7-9 year age mark after vintage, be it White Burgs, Alsatian Riesling, Loire Chenin, etc.

I’ve never heard that view before. Whether something is prematurely oxidized has to be a function of when you would normally expect it to show oxidation, and that varies a lot. I wouldn’t be at all surprised at a California chardonnay that was oxidized at seven years. There are certainly wines that have cracked up sooner than 7-9 years that were not expected to.

[Chris_Seiber]

I’ve had several premoxed Huets from 2010 on in recent years. I’d definitely put it in the medium-high risk category. Same for Chidaine.

[Mel_Knox]

For those of you who fear ruining your eyesight by reading the article I posted, I apologize.

Let me recap things:
Viet Ly said his 2014 Huet smelled like honey and wax.

Dubourdieu and Lavigne say that the odours of premoxed wines resembles those of honey and beeswax.

Viet tastes the wine a second time and notices the oxidation, but says he tried not to let his analytic side overwhelm his enjoyment side.

Hmmm…what could be happening to the wine??

[Brad_Kane]

For those of you who fear ruining your eyesight by reading the article I posted, I apologize.

Let me recap things:
Viet Ly said his 2014 Huet smelled like honey and wax.

Dubourdieu and Lavigne say that the odours of premoxed wines resembles those of honey and beeswax.

Viet tastes the wine a second time and notices the oxidation, but says he tried not to let his analytic side overwhelm his enjoyment side.

Hmmm…what could be happening to the wine??

Except that Chenin usually smells like honey and bees wax. That’s its normal profile. As I said, Chenin tends to run oxy, which is different from premoxy.

[Viet_Ly]

To clarify my post: the first bottle had a honey and waxy note which I associated with the varietal/Chenin but tasted very fresh and I did not associate it with premox. The second bottle had a very faint nose/taste like a white wine that sat in a fridge for a few days. I equated that with very slight pre-mox (very slight sherry vinegar note). Both wines had similar bright straw/yellow color (no obvious dark yellow hue or any hint or orange). Some people are more sensitive than the average to brett/tca. I feel like I may be more sensitive/averse to oxidization in white wine or just don’t drink a lot of “aged” white wine. From the top of my head last year’s bottle of 2008 Stony Hill Chard was delicious and I’ve had delicious aged Champagne (2002 Vilmart couple of months ago was great), so I’ve had a handful of good experiences with white wine with a bit of age on them. Even young white wines recorked and sitting in the fridge for a few days don’t taste as “fresh” to me (have not done double blind trials though ).

John: Your post makes sense. I should not be noting “pre-mox” with my level of experience. Maybe more like bottle variation from bottle 1 vs 2? Or perception variation from different days?

Thanks for posting that link Mel, enjoyed reading it and learned a lot from it

[Mel_Knox]

Viet,
I’ve learned a lot from that article. I had never heard of glutathione so first i thought it was caused by the gluten free diet or maybe glute issues after a hard workout.

Brad, interesting note about Chenin smelling like honey and beeswax. I might have said honey and green apples. Can’t say that I go around bee hives trying to get a whiff. I searched through Jancis’ notes on recent Vouvrays. Found a lot of green apple, a little honey…no wax of any sort.

[John_Morris]

Wax is very typical of Loire chenins. I’d say it’s the tell, really.

No need to risk an anaphylactic reaction to find out what it smells like, Mel. Just sniff a genuine beeswax candle or buy some honey in the comb.

[Otto_Forsberg]

John: Your post makes sense. I should not be noting “pre-mox” with my level of experience. Maybe more like bottle variation from bottle 1 vs 2? Or perception variation from different days?

Is that some premature moxidation?

[Vincent_Fritzsche]

Wait it’s controversial to suggest that Chenin can display waxiness? What?!?

[Mel_Knox]

I never thought of this but where you have apples usually there is a little wax.

Today we opened a 2005 Huet Sec, High Place…oddly I was on a street whose name sounds just like Brad’s last name…different spelling. A friend of mine and I split maybe 2 cases of the 2005s way back when. I finished mine off in a hurry but he kept a bottle just to see what would happen.

The results?? Not bad at all. It still has what I think of as the smells of premox and the rest of you as honey and wax. It’s a little advanced since I last tasted but not that much. The color was good. What was disconcerting at age five seems ok at age 14.

Next time we get together…he has a 2002!

[larry_schaffer]

Mel,

Curious whether you react to rhone whites in terms of ‘premox’ in the same way?

I am not a fan of what I see as obviously oxidized wines, but I see this more as ‘rotten apple’ instead of honey and wax. I do not mind the latter descriptors, especially as it relates to aged rhone whites . . .

Cheers.

[Mel_Knox]

I rarely drink Rhone whites. I usually steal Marsanne and Rousanne from Bob Lindquist when he isn’t looking.

Rotten apple isn’t such a bad term but perhaps overstating the case. When I think of Vouvray etc I think of green apple but this wine was more like a softer red apple.

[Brad_Kane]

I never thought of this but where you have apples usually there is a little wax.

And I don’t use apple that much to describe Chenin, finding quince a much more accurate and prevelent descriptor.

[Chris_Kissack]

I thought the 2012 Huet Secs were poor on release, and said so. No surprise really, it was a very difficult vintage, roads turned to rivers at one point there was so much rain. Got banned from tasting at the domaine for expressing my opinion. Informative to me to read of these experiences with the wines today.

[Victor_Hong]

I thought the 2012 Huet Secs were poor on release, and said so. No surprise really, it was a very difficult vintage, roads turned to rivers at one point there was so much rain. Got banned from tasting at the domaine for expressing my opinion. Informative to me to read of these experiences with the wines today.

No bad vintages, just bad reviewers!