If you are discovering this thread, which I started back in January 2020, the initial idea was to gather people’s opinions about which Loire reds were the best (mostly Cabernet Francs). It developed into a compilation of notes and general impressions, somewhere to look for info on the wines.
From my point of view, this thread has been also a voyage of discovery. I got into Loire reds about 15 years ago after one bottle too many of overripe, over-priced Bordeaux. I still love the latter, which constitutes 60% of my cellar, but the Loire has gone from nowhere to over 30%, mostly the reds which feature in the thread.
During the life of the thread, several people have asked me also about vintages. I have drawn up a very imperfect guide which is at the end of this post. It is only based on my own experiences and impressions, so approach it with caution.
One thing is however very clear. Since 2014, with the possible exception of 2021, the Loire has enjoyed an unprecedented run of very good or excellent vintages. There has never been a better time to try them. Even the best wines from the best vintages are accessible young and they age as beautifully as any other top wine from anywhere else. I have discovered myself that their “plâteaux” are much longer than I expected - wines that have seemed to be at full maturity, from older vintages that I wasn’t aware were that good, have remained in perfect condition a good five to ten years after I thought they would decline or even fall apart. Moreover, unlike further south, Loire reds have the ability to mature without losing any freshness.
Obviously, this thread does not seek to replace the work of true pros. If you really want to know everything about Loire reds and whites, plus Bordeaux, I strongly recommend Chris Kissack’s site: https://www.thewinedoctor.com/
Classification
There has never been a classification of Loire wines and there probably never will be, which is just as well for our wallets. The idea taken was to emulate the Bordeaux Médoc classification - which of course was a mistake - hindsight is a wonderful thing. It would have been better to focus on actual wines, rather than producers. But it does have the advantage of being less complicated than the Burgundy model.
First Growth
Clos Rougeard (Saumur-C)
Second Growths
Joguet, Baudry, Plouzeau (Touraine/Chinon - just on the basis of the Ante Phylloxera cuvée), D. du Collier (Saumur-C), P et R Gauthier/Domaine du Bel Air (Bourgueil)
Third Growths
Alliet, Olga Raffault (top QPR), C et P Breton (Bourgueil), Thierry Germain/Domaine des Roches Neuves (Saumur-C), La Porte Saint Jean (Saumur), Antoine Sanzay (Saumur-C), Lenoir - Les Roches, Coulaine, Yannick Amirault (Bourgueil), Sébastien David - Vin d’une Oreille (St.Nicolas de Bourgueil or VdeF depending on vintage)
Fourth Growths
Jacky Blot (Bourgueil), Chevalerie (Bourgueil), Hureau (Saumur-C), Villeneuve (Saumur C), Yvonne (Saumur-C), Fosse-Sèche (Saumur), Guion (Bourgueil) , Guiberteau (Saumur), Fabien Duveau (Saumur-C), Dom. de la Cotelleraie (St.Nicolas de B), Filliatreau (Saumur-C).
Fifth Growths
Domaine des Chesnaies (Bourgueil), F. Mabileau (St.Nicolas de B), Les Chesnaies – Le Puits Danaé, Pallus, Clau de Nell (Anjou) Couly-Dutheil (be careful - a radical change of style from 2005 onwards, with very ripe wines often with high ABV levels. These are for fans of that style. Wines prior to 05 are much finer and of “2nd Growth” level)
All the unspecified ones are Chinons.
Vintages - 2000 to 2020
2000: not very good. I’ve only tried a few but they were underwhelming.
2001: much better than I expected and still holding up well, at least concerning the Couly-Dutheils.
2002: variable but the good ones have been very enjoyable (Jacky Blot, Couly-Dutheil, Alliet, Joguet, Villeneuve).
2003: what you would expect, unfortunately. Some have liked them a lot more than me. I still have a few - I’ve enjoyed some (again, Alliet, also Couly-Dutheil, Blot, Joguet and Baudry), but like Bordeaux, they are good in spite of the vintage rather than thanks to it.
2004: not bad but not very exciting. I tried all my usual suspects and have never felt like going back for more. I still have a few left.
2005: my jury is still out on this one. It’s a bit similar to the Bordeaux 2005 vintage - big, sturdy, sometimes surly wines which hopefully will eventually come round. I’ve had some enjoyable wines and I’ve got a good stock, but it’s not a vintage I’m looking to buy more of.
2006: better than I expected. The vintage was ruined by rain during the harvest and in some wines, it shows, but I’ve really enjoyed Alliet’s Coteau de Noiré and one or two others, which are less burly than the 05s yet still very fruity.
2007: nothing special. I’ve had a couple of good wines but I’d avoid it now.
2008: crisp, elegant wines rather than big and fruity, so I rather like it. Still plenty of life yet in the big guns and one to look out for.
2009: ripe, winsome and in the best wines, crisp enough to keep them honest, The best are excellent, but sadly some are becoming as syrupy now as their counterparts in Bordeaux.
2010: crisper and more taut than the 09s, perhaps slightly more classical, less exuberant in style. I’m enjoying them a lot now. Probably better overall than 2009.
2011 - mostly quite lean, with one or two exceptions (Clos de L’Echo by Couly Dutheil springs to mind - overripe and syrupy). Some very good wine though - like La Marginale. Coteau de Noiré, or Les Varennes.
2012 - much the same as most 2011s, some crisp, acidic wines which lack a little ripeness, but great if you enjoy the leaner type of CF.
2013 - one or two wines are OK (eg Chevalerie Grand Mont) but really, this is a vintage to avoid - mostly green, unripe and a poor QPR. In my experience at least, the worst of any vintage over the last twenty years.
2014 - a classic for Loire geeks, it has the ripeness lacking in the previous three, but not as much as the 2015. For me, in style it’s midway between 2011/12 and 2015. Excellent vintage, especially if you like them crisp and fresh.
2015 - ripe, but not excessively so and well worth looking at, it’s a good long-term bet. None of the wines I have tried have been OTT and I’m confident that the best will be exceptional.
2016 - similar to 2014, so very crisp and sappy, perhaps slightly riper, very promising
2017 - again, similar to 2014 and 2016 but the wines I have tried so far are just a smidgen riper than in 2016. Wines from some producers, like Yannick Amirault, are exceptional. It’s a vintage I’m still loading up on since the prices remain low.
2018 - riper than 2015 and of course 2014, 2016 and 2017. It is best to stick to the top names - the wines I have tried from Roches-Neuves or Baudry have been breathtakingly good but there are some gloopy wines from others. I’m optimistic that the best will turn out as well as the best in 2009.
2019 - I’ve only tried a few wines so far but my initial impression is that this is crisper, less exuberant than 2018.
2020 - I’ve tried one wine, so I can’t say for certain, but I think it’s along the same lines as 2019. Mathieu Baudry describes 2020 as being less rich than the three preceding ones, so perhaps closer to 2016?
2021 - less ripe than the preceding vintages, so crisper and fresher. Fans of leaner CFs will love this vintage. For me, it’s like a better 2011 or 2012.
2022 - another very ripe vintage. I haven’t tried any yet but initial reports are both optimistic and worrying. On the plus side, the wines sound as if they are for the long haul, but for those who are not keen on high levels of ABV, you need to be very careful to check before buying. None of the reports I have read mention any gloopiness, but wines with over 14.5% are what they are.
Generally speaking, alcohol levels, especially in riper vintages, have become something to be wary of when buying Loire CFs.
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