Part of the problem is that I can tell you what I like in that price range but that won’t necessarily be what you’ll like (for example David above makes some great suggestions but Pavelot is conspicuously absent). I really endorse Alan’s advice on trying to go to tastings and/or working with friends to sample widely.
FWIW my ageworth purchases in that price range might include:
Rollin Pernand Vergelesses - esp. the Les Vergelesses for nearer term drinking and the Iles des Vergelesses for longer term
Pavelot Savignys - esp. the Dominodes
Bize Savignys - esp. the Vergelesses
Roty Marsannay Ouzeloy
Drouhin village wines
Lafarge village Volnay
Faiveley Mercurey Clos des Myglands
Some of these are edging above $50 now unfortunately.
Before Charlie takes out his Lawyer ID card and pounds the podium. He said: “You’ll find more consistently age worthy wines to cellar at a higher price point.”
He didn’t say one “only” should cellar more expensive burgs.
Lawyers live on details and precision of language.
Where do you live? see fi you can go to a local wine shop that offers tastings and BEG them for a Burgundy tasting. Then taste everything you can. I’ve been in your shoes before and it does take a while to drink enough to figure out which producers and then vineyards you like.
Try Volnays. Bouchard is an easy to find producer at a decent price point. If you sign up with JJ Buckley, their “private salespeople” will send you email deals all the time, and they have clearance sales around twice a year.
Try Savigny, Nuit st Georges appelations. Then save a few bucks for some Chambolle, Vosne, etc…
Then save up a few bucks to get the famous producers like Montille, D’angerville, Lafarge, Fourrier, etc… and see if you like them.
At that point you probably would have enough experience to figure out what you like to buy and age longterm.
Hey, now, let’s forget all about connotation and focus on the denotation. And throw in some gratuitous insults while we are at it.
Because what Charlie said wasn’t “hey, IF you want more consistently cellarable wines, spend more money, but you might find some cellarable wines at $50, and here are some suggestions.” What he actually said was “Spend more money.” Which is a normative statement, for those of you lacking in English comprehension. And normative statements are prescriptions about what one should do. And Charlie’s statement said that you should take the money you had earmarked for $50 burgs and spend it on $150 burgs. That is, if’n you wanted to cellar them.
Thus concludes our remedial English lesson.
I’m still waiting for the answer to my first question.
To the OP: I second Jay’s and Scott’s suggestions.
I’m still fairly new to Burgundy, but as people will wisely suggest, I’ve been tasting as much as possible, young and aged, over the past couple of years. I agree that doing so is the best way to start, and to not even worry about laying anything down at first. What I’ve been finding is that the wines that really impress me, being truly intellectually engaging rather than just really tasty, have been at higher price points such as Charlie Fu is suggesting. I have less to spend on wine than many (probably almost all) of the Burgheads on this board, but for wines to age and really see some fireworks down the road, I think it makes a lot of sense to buy fewer bottles that cost more to add up to whatever overall budget I’m shooting for. I do still buy some wines in the $30-$50 range as well, but one $90 bottle will often give me more pleasure than two at half that price. Plus, I pay for wine storage, and most people do in some way, so I’m happier paying what adds up to a fair amount of money over 10-20+ years for wines that will truly impress and buying aged, less expensive bottles on the secondary market at reasonable prices as I’m sure I will be able to for quite some time. At least by trying as much as possible before coming up with a plan for the cellar, you’ll be confident with whatever route you choose for the latter. It’s a complicated, often confusing region, but it’s not tough to try wines from a bunch of well respected producers and seeing what appeals to you.
Charlie’s “offending” post was the second post (and the first responsive post) in the thread. That should already tell you that he was responding only to the original post. In fact, Charlie clarified this point in his second post, wherein he explained his first post. He wrote: “But I strongly disagree with the idea that you should only cellar burgundy at $30-50, that’s what my reply was about and what I thought the original poster was talking about.” Consequently, we should look to the original post, since Charlie was clearly responding only to that.
In the original post, the OP stated: “I can’t afford $100 bottles to explore what I like, but I can do $30-50…If you were starting a cellar of ‘serious’ Burgundy at that price range, at auction or new purchase, what would you be looking for, and how would you council a newbie like me? Any and all help appreciated!”
As I see it, Charlie’s only error, if you can even call it an error, was contesting the idea that one should “only” cellar Burgundy in the $30-50 price range, since nobody explicitly made that claim. Nonetheless, given that Charlie could reasonably have concluded that the OP was suggesting building a serious Burg cellar of only $30-50 wines, I think that his reply was quite reasonable. And if you think that he should have accepted the narrow parameters of the OP’s question and thus not offered relevant advice that transcended those parameters, well that would be silly, as adopting that approach would stymy a lot of discussion on this board.
Where did he say that? In his first post, he advocated the following: “How many bottles are you looking to buy at 30-50 dollars? Cut that amount in 3rd and then buy nicer bottles for cellaring. You’ll find more consistently age worthy wines to cellar at a higher price point.”
I’ll grant you that the statement is ambiguous. Is Charlie saying that OP should only buy bottles in the $90-150 price range, or is he suggesting that the OP dedicate approximately one third of his Burgundy cellar budget to $30-50 bottles, with the remaining portion of his budget being allocated to higher priced bottles? But his second post resolves the ambiguiuty: “I’m not advocating to not buy any wines at $30-50, but to focus on only $30-50 to collect (which I assume means many bottles) would be an error. So trim the focus. If you were going to buy 50 $30-50 bottles, maybe buy 25 instead and buy another 10-15 bottles of $60-100 bottles.”
As I have said before, some of my favorite value wines are
Chandon des Briailles
Jadot and Bouchard Beaune premier crus
Pavelot 1er crus from Savigny les Beaune
For a real bargain, try Jouan Passtoutsgrain
Dublere (I less experience with their wines but like a lot what I have had)
Buy some pavelot pernand vergelesses, bachelet cdnv or gevrey villages if you can find it at a good price, barthod bourgogne, jadot beaunes, bouley volnays, gouges nsg (clos des porets if you want to splurge a bit). Try to get three bottles of each. Try one now. Hold the other two. Open one ten years from vintage and hold the other awhile.
Well stated, Doug. I do agree that exploring the various options is a good idea before buying wines to cellar. In fact, Noah, I would recommend buying a range of wines from the mid-to-late nineties to try and see what you like in an aged burgundy (or if you even like it at all). Most of those wines are available for no more money than the current releases will cost you.
Thought I made myself pretty clear in my second reply so no need on your part to infer anything on what I said as I was very straightforward in my response. The answer to your first question can be seen in Mr. Z’s normative statement.
Nobody remotely made the suggestion that one should only cellar Burgundy in the $30-$50 range. The OP stated that that was all he could afford. He made no statement about what those of greater means should do, nor do I see how one could reasonable be read into his statement.
[quote=“Lee Short”]
What I did see is you saying you should only cellar burgundy at $90-$150.
[/quote]
Where did he say that? In his first post, he advocated the following: "How many bottles are you looking to buy at 30-50 dollars? Cut that amount in 3rd and then buy nicer bottles for cellaring. You’ll find more consistently age worthy wines to cellar at a higher price point.
I’ll grant you that the statement is ambiguous. "
Yep. He said not to buy $30-$50 bottles for cellaring and to instead buy $90-$150 bottles for cellaring. That isn’t ambiguous, that’s a clear statement. Buying one third as many bottles at three times the price is Charlie’s clear direction. That leaves a grand budget of $0 left over. Do the math.
Is Charlie saying that OP should only buy bottles in the $90-150 price range, or is he suggesting that the OP dedicate approximately one third of his Burgundy cellar budget to $30-50 bottles, with the remaining portion of his budget being allocated to higher priced bottles? But his second post resolves the ambiguiuty: “I’m not advocating to not buy any wines at $30-50, but to focus on only $30-50 to collect (which I assume means many bottles) would be an error. So trim the focus. If you were going to buy 50 $30-50 bottles, maybe buy 25 instead and buy another 10-15 bottles of $60-100 bottles.”
So Charlie contradicts himself. I guess that given his statements earlier in that post, I failed to recognize how much he backpedalled in the last sentence. Mea culpa.
I am assuming you are talking about red Burgundy. If this is the case there are probably 100’s or 1000’s of options for you in that price bracket. Some Bourgogne wines can age well but I would probably stick with Village level wines from decent producers. Have a look at some of the names constantly mentioned on the board and go out and buy a few village wines and tuck them away.
Red Burgundy and wine in general tends to age a lot longer than people think. I reckon that most of the Village wines you pick up from decent producers will easily cellar for 20+ years (even the difficult years) given the right cellaring conditions.
