Anyone reading Jamie Goode's new book, "I Taste Red"?

Tom

Just done a bit of googling about Tim Gaiser, and I don’t think it is the same thing. The modes of perception are I think the 5 senses we normally talk about. And the point is that we see the wine, taste it through chemical sense on our tongue, feel it physically in our mouth, sense it chemically in our nose, and even hear it. Our perception of wine is a combination of all these sensations - hence multi-modal - and form part of a single experience of the wine. The most obvious example with wine is how we assume that fruity flavours are sensed in the mouth, because that is where the wine is, and with combine them with the sweet and acidic flavours.

The idea seems often to be linked with synaesthesia which is another example of how the senses interact.

All that is from memory, and from Jamie’s book. I had not heard the term multi-modal before in this context, even though I knew the basic idea.

John

I appreciate what Jamie is trying to achieve, but I would contend that it is possible to write at an introductory level and still be more rigorous with the facts.

I am not at all concerned about some of the book being old news, just that some of the old (and new news) is not correctly conveyed.

Wow - you guys love the geeky stuff, eh?!?!?

I will definitely have to get a copy of the book - sounds quite interesting.

Always ‘challenging’ to read a book like this that quotes studies done a decade or two ago, though, since technology has allowed us to do a lot better job of capturing and categorizing things than ever before.

I also agree that there are most likely competitive factors for each of the claims Jamie makes and that things are not black and white. For instance, the ‘markers’ that each variety may contain will be masked or magnified by so many characters that it’s not necessarily possible to pick them out (think Cab Franc and most US producers, for instance).

Still, I hope to read soon and get into the discussion :slight_smile:

Cheers!

BTW, I also thought it was very interesting to learn how in general there is no simple mapping from the many chemicals in wine to aroma sensations. Occasionally there is a one-to-one mapping, but often it is extremely complex.

have a copy now on hold at the library =)
Looking forward to reading it.

Thanks for checking, Steve. IMHO, Tim’s “system” strikes me as a bit of flim/flam…having watched his video.
I’ll just have to get going & read Jamie’s book to find out.
Tom

Not heard of Rolls before. I wonder if he talks to Charles Spence in Oxford, who is widely quoted on the perception of food and drink.

Would be interested to see your article, Philip - though I of course realise it might be a problem, depending on who you are writing for.

I bought the book, but was disappointed. It really seemed like more a general book about the nature of sensory perception than it was about wine tasting specifically. If you are seeking a general book on sensory perception you could find better than this I think, and that was not in any case what I was looking for.

I would have loved to have seen a book that took a deep dive into wine chemistry and how that chemistry translates into tasting perceptions. Including the chemistry of wine aging, which seems very mysterious and interesting. This is far from that book.

I do feel environment and multi modal/multi sensory factors play a major role in the wine experience.

You can imagine the difference the tasting experience in these two pictures .

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As opposed to the picture of a Rouseau tasting in this post

No question environment plays a role, but if I had to choose between “major” and “minor”, I would definitely go with “minor”. I’m trying to think of a sense that is affected by environment in a major way. I don’t see differently when I’m sad vs. happy. I don’t think my sense of smell changes that much in different environments (aside from, say, being outside in windy conditions); I know that environment, mood, other conditions can have an effect on our perceptions, but I’m not convinced that my perception of a wine changes dramatically based on environment (as opposed to how much wine I’ve had, which wines, what food I’ve eaten, palate saturation, etc., i.e., the physical and chemical condition of my palate).

You’ve never drunk that charming little local wine someplace in Europe that was so outstanding, only to bring a bottle home and finding that it was just, meh?

Sure I have. And I’ve learned to pay more attention to the wine in environments like that, and be a little more critical before getting too enthusiastic :wink:

Maybe we’re saying the same thing: environment can indeed distract the mind, and make something more (or less) enjoyable. But I’m convinced that if you focus on whatever it is you’re doing (e.g., wine tasting), environment fades into the background and becomes much less of an influence.

  1. Alan, thanks for that chemistry link!

  2. I think there is a big environmental effect on wine tasting. To start with the overly obvious, I bet we can all think of times when odors in an environment have skewed the taste and smell of wine. So, I would wager there are subtle effects we don’t cognitively recognize. The example of a wine being great in a cellar but ‘meh’ at home might have been greatly influenced by the accompanying scents in the cellar. Wine at the beach vs. while sitting in a hot tub vs. home while cooking a meal - huge environmental impacts!

That was one of the points made in Jamie’s book: Even if we are unaware of odours in the environment, they can influence the way we perceive the odours we are giving our attention to. Whether they are usually major or minor effects, I do not know, and I suspect no one else does. Also can’t remember how well the research was referenced.

That is before we consider the effects of music, lighting, mood etc

I came on Jamie’s article on this topic in the August/September 2014 issue of Somm Journal. Sadly, it’s not available on line. But he bases this on experiments he participated in at Conetech and with Clark Smith in which the same wine (ergo same original fruit) had its alcohol raised or lowered. Smith brought an Amador syrah that was originally 18% (!) that was reduced to 15.4%, 14.2% and 13.75%, shifting its flavor profile from “jammy and chocolaty” to darker fruits with tannins more apparent at 14.2% to something more peppery, with acid showing, at 13.75%. He quotes Smith saying: We do sweet spot tastings with 2,500 wines ayear and we never get a bell curve distribution of preferences… It’s like tuning into radio stations."

John,
I think that Syrah was the set that was made at FresnoState. The grapes were, in fact, CentralVlly and not Amador.
Tom

The article specifically says Amador County syrah. If Smith is doing 2,500 such tests a year, why do you think it had to be that wine?

But perhaps you were there … from the beginning. :slight_smile:

Just picked this up. Thanks for all the positive comments. The book was peer reviewed by two expert academics in the field, as is normal for UCP titles. I tried to be as rigorous as possible. I hope I’ve not offended Steve S in the past in some way, but I can understand that my writing style is not for everyone. This is not a textbook - unfortunately some people want textbooks when the content is based on science.

Jamie

More of a science textbook in this field is this :

Neil will be publishing my review of this book and in it I compare this book to yours.

My book just landed. I will try and find some time to read it over Easter.