Thanks Jim, interesting post as always. I love Oregon wines, but have little experience with the top end ones. Certainly in the context of what a good burg costs the top prices are not crazy.
The premier grape in California, at least as far as the market is concerned, is Cabernet, as the top prices for a Napa cab show. The premier grape in Oregon is clearly Pinot. From that perspective Oregon producers have been much more conservative in pricing then their Napa cousins.
funny thing is some California wineries are now adding Oregon Pinot to their portfolio whether via grape purchases, winery purchases, label purchases etcā¦
As a lay consumer, my perspective is that fine wine prices are driven by a strange and difficult-to-predict correlation between marketing, demand, scarcity and perceived quality. Demand for Burgundy has caused prices to escalate to the point that Iāve virtually stopped buying all the wines I used to perceive as offering good QPR. Iāve largely substituted OR Pinots (no, theyāre not Burgundy) and often find them more than satisfying. The other night I enjoyed a $30 2010 Westrey Reserve Pinot. For comparable quality, Iād expect to pay $75 - $100 in Burgundy. Not that paying more for a Burg is a guarantee of commensurate quality IMHO.
If I spent 4x more for a $120 Oregon Pinotā¦would I get 4x the quality and comparable quality of a $300 - $400 GC or 1er Burg? I doubt it. The few $100+ OR Pinots Iāve tasted were very good to excellent but typically not profound in the way one expects from a GC Burg. I donāt think thereās any good way to judge other than to taste a lot of pricier OR Pinots in contrast to more affordable $30 - $60 options. For better or worse, Iāve become extremely satisfied with the depth and complexity of OR Pinots that are available for substantially less than $100. Market forces or unique tasting experiences might change that some dayā¦and perhaps some day soon. But for now, OR remains an oasis of outstanding quality and affordable prices for Pinot lovers.
RT
Oh this is easy. You want my 2012 Caroline. $90, but I can up the price to fit the criteria.
I agree with Patricia Green and Eyrie.
I havenāt had one in a while, but when the Oregon wave started, the Ponzi Reserve really captured my imagination. (Late 1980ās.)
If you want to revisit, I recommend the 2013 Ponzi Reserve. Superb!
The 1993 Ponzi Reserve was drop dead gorgeous.
Yeah this is all well and good but who makes the best Oregon gamay?
None of them are expensive enough to be any good.
Brickhouse makes the best OR gamay hands down!
I think that applying the percentage increase from a $30 wine to a $120 wine seems, well, unusual. The $120 wine needs to compete at a level a $400 wine does? In one case you are talking about $75~ difference, in another you are talking about close to $300. In reality the question is are $120 Oregon Pinots better than $120 Red Burgundies? Youāre an experienced Burgundy guy and have crossover to Oregon Pinots. I would say that I and likely other wineries are not necessarily trying to convince you that our $120 Oregon Pinot is as good as Grivotās Clos Vougeot (or whatever). We are trying get people that love the best that domestic Pinot Noir has to offer (IOHO) that are willing and able to pay $120 (or whatever) that donāt care if some hundred year old Burgundy domaine has a wine that is better at 4x the price. The domaine that has the $400 wine isnāt asking itās customers to consider whether their $100 village wine is 1/4th as good as their $400 Grand Cru and therefore the GC is the justifiable purchase. They established these vineyards and these wines and are commanding prices based upon what their customers will pay for those wines. It is really no different in the case of Oregon wines. I think people should buy Toddās $40 single vineyard wines, or Marcus Goodfellowās or ours and so on but I also think people should be aware that the top end wines that Tood, Marcus and we have at double/triple (whatever) the cost are freaking amazing wines that compete, usually, quite easily with Burgundies at the same price. If the test is that Oregon has to be 1/4 the price but the same quality as Burgundy then the test is rigged. I donāt think we are, mostly, going to find the hard core Burgundy buyer to think our $150 Oregon wine is worth it. Thatās okay. We and others are convincing folks that they donāt need to worry about what Burgundy has to offer.
Some of the things Vlossak did with the fruit from Seven Springs was pretty incredible, but the access is no longer there.
Jim, as you know, comparisons between Burgundy and OR are tricky, sometimes appropriateā¦sometimes not. Many $300 and $400 Burgs today couldāve been found for $120 - $150 not all that long ago. It was demand and scarcity that shot up the priceā¦not a change in quality IMHO. So, in a somewhat twisted pseudo-logical not-easily-testable, consumer-centric wayā¦Iād expect the quality of the highest priced OR Pinots to begin to rival that of higher priced Burgs. Whether demand will follow is anyoneās guess.
I very much respect the work that you and others do to make great OR Pinot. There need to be some GC level efforts in Oregon to test the watersā¦and I have no problem with the concept.
Attend a tasting session at LaPaulee and the quality differences (with exceptions) are relatively evident at varying price points. The distinctions are much more blurred in OR although in general, the better wines are more expensive. In the past, If I was going to spend more than $60 for Pinotā¦it would definitely be for a Burg. These day, thatās not trueā¦so perhaps thereās ever increasing room for $100 - $120 OR Pinots? Iād want to taste/compare more thoroughly before plunging in.
RT
I was just in Oregon a few months back and tasted at Patty Green and Beaux Frere. Both of these producers are outstanding. I also like Cristom, Bergstrom and Ken Wright. There are probably a 1/2 dozen others like St. Innocent that I buy regularly.
Maybe true of oldā¦and no slight to Doug or his abilities. I recently consumed a few bottles from Vincent (Vincent Fritzsche) and they were excellent and on par. Belle Pente does a very nice Gamay Noir. Iām sure there are others.
RT
There are a bunch of Gamay producers, and most of their wines are very good to excellent. I believe that Doug was the first recipient of a new Gamay clone that was brought in several years ago, and that has added another dimension to his Gamays.
+1 for Cameron. John Paulās 2016 Clos Electrique Rouge and 2016 Massale are two of the best wines Iāve tasted this year.
Evening Land, Walter Scott with 2017 vintage, Chehalem, Division, and probably a few others in addition to Richardās list. I can vouch for Brick House, Vincent, Evening Land and Chehalem as enjoyable pours. Waiting on the Walter Scott and Iām sure that the Belle Pente is nice.
Iāve had several of these wines and can say without question that gamay has a bright, vibrant future in Oregon.
This is a funny discussion and the answer is, obviously, wickedly subjective. Iāll try to answer your question. Bill, if youāre looking for wines that are at the top end of the Oregon PN price threshold but are (reputed to be) of high quality, Iād probably go White Rose. Iāve heard people fawn over White Rose Pinot Noirs. I visited their tasting room last year with my wife. The property is gorgeous. BUT, when they wanted to charge me a large, non-credited-toward-purchase tasting fee to sample three wines, and then charge me $80+ per bottle, I was largely turned off. The wines were fine, sure, and made in a decidedly delicate style. That said, I didnāt buy a single one and wouldnāt. Theyāre too expensive. For my dollars, Iād go Belle Pente, Goodfellow, Ponzi. Theyāre not, āHigh Endā but, of course, thatās not what youāre looking for.