We certainly benefit that Pinot is the grape of note here in Oregon and that the benchmark is Burgundy and that Burgundian wines have gone mostly into orbit price wise. Wines are mostly relative in their pricing. If we are successful at making wines that easily compete with $120-$200+ Burgs we are fine. That there are people that will spend $500+ on Burgundy but no more than $60 on Oregon is unfortunate but not necessarily really telling for us here as to whether the wines are qualitatively “worth it”, whether we can sell them or if there is a far different customer base that would spend $125 on a wine but thinks the idea of a $500+ wine is nuts/too much/out of their price range/whatever. There are customers that taste these wines and do find the value in them whether they are tasting relativistically or within a vacuum or simply comparing the wine to other Oregon wines. I think Oregon has much more slowly come around to the concept of $100 wines than California and the idea of Oregon wines being $100+ may take some getting used to but I think there are plenty of customers that think these wines are well worth it.
The 2016 Cameron Pinots are a slice of heaven, so pretty and amazingly pure. Bravo John Paul.
It would take something quite astonishing to top these.
The 2017 Failla Willamette Valley Pinot Noir is a cracker for the money (no where near $100).
disclaimer: We sell Failla in Australia.
…and it’s a totally different experience visiting wineries in Oregon Vs. Napa or Sonoma. It’s always felt personal when I was visiting a winery in Oregon…it’s felt like business when I was in Napa.
Wasn’t always like that in Napa, Kirk. Time passes, things change.
I remember Joe Heitz sitting in Charlie Wagner’s tasting room late on a weekday afternoon. That was fun!
Strange thread…It seems that you’re confusing folks and beating around the bush. Just say you want a BSD wine Bill!
If you’re genuine in that you want to know if the $100+ wines are “worth it” in Oregon, then in my opinion the answer is “no”. Burgundy will still beat most, if not all Oregon wine in that price point. If you are looking for wines that will impress…there’s Domaine Serene Monogram. Gobs of fruit, loads of oak, and an overextracted hot mess with no sense of place or vintage. Is it “worth” $250? No. I don’t think it’s worth $25, but some love it.
Cristom, DDO and White Rose are the big ones for me over $100. They make lovely wine. Eyrie also is up there but again, paying $100-$200 for Oregon wine baffles me when there’s SO much better wines elsewhere for that price.
Ask again in 30 years when we figure out our Crus for Oregon. I think Maresh vineyard along with a few others will be making some of the most beautiful wines from Oregon.
I think this is the crux of the matter. My perception is that Bill Sweeney started this thread asking about $100+ Oregon Pinots with the expectation that they’d be the best. There’s a not insignificant number of wine buyers who want “the best” and believe fine wine buying starts at $100+. Aubert, Marcassin, Peter Michael and post release Kosta-Browne or Kistler are a few examples from CA.
Jim’s argument is that he can make Oregon Pinot Noir that’s worth $100+/bottle. It’s quite a challenge, considering the less expensive competition and Burgundy alternatives, but I believe it’s a worthy pursuit. There’s no reason not to broadly test the top of the OR Pinot market. There’ll need to be some consistent home runs to establish that price point, but it won’t happen unless winemakers step up to the plate and swing.
Meanwhile, stock up on “cheaper” OR Pinot because it’s still the best value in the world…YMMV.
RT
Again, I would say a couple of folks here are coming from the $350 Burgundy alternative to the $125 Oregon Pinot Noir. Those people are not, by and large going to to be the customers of the higher end Oregon Pinots. That’s fine. There are plenty of threads on this board about the minefield of Burgundy so let’s not pretend that every $100-$1,000 Burgundy is the supreme example of Pinot Noir. The folks whose upper tier wines I have had and respect know Burgundy, have spent money and time there, have been making wines for a long time and feel that they have wines that operate in that realm. I get it, if you are inclined to the top 1ers and GCs of Burgundy and have decided what price point Oregon stops at then this thread is pointless to you. I don’t see it that way and, aside from being biased, think it is a logically flawed way of looking at things. The $400 Burgundy is obviously superior to the $100 Burgundy but the $125 Oregon Pinot cannot be discerned from the $50 one but somehow the $50 Oregon Pinot is superior to the $50 Burgundy. I realize making purchasing decisions come from personal taste, economic factors of all kind and some sort of internal QPR (as well as a myriad of other factors, of course) so if you have pre-determined that there is a magic price point at which Oregon begins to fail but Burgundy does not then that is your bias and that’s fine and please continue to buy wineries’ sub-whatever price point wine you have settled upon. More than 2/3rds of our production of Pinot Noir retails for $25-$42 so certainly that is a category we believe in and need to function for us (and 85% of our white wine is under $30 as well). I am certainly not attempting to run a winery that bases itself upon having the most expensive wine on the planet. But I do believe in Oregon and we have all the elements that make for having wines that are truly exceptional and in many ways have advantages over Burgundy in the continuing production of wines of a certain quality and corresponding price. We don’t need to try and convert the hard core Burgundy drinkers because by and large we will not because of the inherently rigged system of “this $100 wine is too expensive but this $350 wine is not.” Our goal as businesses here is to find the people who are not trying to make value judgments as to whether our wines match up to the legendary wines from great producers 6,000 miles away. I understand where the Burg drinkers are coming from. It is not as if I do not know (and, believe me, there are plenty of producers of Pinot Noir in the US that have little to no idea about Burgundy) so I get your point of view but as a winemaker and business owner I don’t believe in it and, if I did, I would not even bother doing what I do. We have two wines at $100+. I am pretty confident in both of them and where they fall in the mythical hierarchy of Pinot Noirs. I am sure Todd would say the same thing about his $90 wine.
Jim, Your are a passionate guy! And I say that as a compliment (and with a little envy). Cheers. -Jim
A simple answer to a simple question, and I agree. The track record this wine has for aging confirms its extremely high quality. And yes, it’s over $100 on release.
Kelley Fox, Arterberry Maresh, 1789 Wines are some of the best IMHO
There are so many great producers that is hard for me to pick. Price is not always a gauge of quality. There are plenty of $125+ Pinots that I don’t really like. You need to go to Oregon and taste the wide variety that is there and make your decision based on that.
Same here.
Whatever Jim says is usually spot on, and is again here. We all know I don’t use as many words. So, ditto.
Maybe someday. Whenever I hear about a Marc Tarlov project, I have an urge to put my wallet in the front pants pocket and keep one hand on it.
His dreams of Evening Land price escalation fell to earth pretty fast. Maybe Chapter 24 has taken off? This venture too?. You’ll never know unless you try.
I don’t know Felipe Ramirez and nothing about his talent as a winemaker. There are a number of exceptional Pinot makers in OR and most are where they are after many years of sweat & tears and trial & error facing OR’s diverse and unique winemaking challenges.
RT
Has anyone tasted the '16’s from Kelley Fox?? Or the '16 Cameron Clos Electrique?
I had the 16 Mirabai. Loved it. Great nose, lovely but restrained red fruit. Bought a bunch of the 17s recently.
Thomas
Cameron
Lingua Franca
Domaine Drouhin Oregon
Ayoub
Arterberry Maresh
Gary, I’m with you on the Thomas, Cameron, and AM. Haven’t tried the others. Have you had the opportunity to taste any Kelley Fox wines? Would love to hear your opinion.
Ian, the only Mirabai I’ve had was the '13, and that was quite good, esp for the vintage. Am thinking about the '16/'17 Maresh and/or Red Barn Maresh.