Not sure if I am reading your comments correctly, but just in case, La Mish is not a second label to Haut Brion. And yea, to me, La Mish is generally the equivalent of a First Growth in many vintages.
Ha! Sorry, that was not worded well at all. Those were two separate questions. First, I was asking about people’s opinions of second labels of the first growths like Les Forts de Latour, Bahans Haut Brion, Pavillon de Chateaux Margaux etc. The second question was about the pricing of La Mission Haut Brion bc I was hoping for recommendations that were a little less pricey. I meant to type, “Also, isn’t La Mission Haut Brion basically PRICED like a first growth?” Sorry for the typo and thanks for the clarification.
Second labels are rarely worth the effort. Les Forts de Latour is technically not a second wine, which is one reason (among others) it is quite expensive.
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If you don’t want to purchase Bordeaux to lay down in the cellar for years, the issue is sourcing older wines. Winebid was mentioned which is always a source, but JJ Buckley also offers older vintages periodically which is now probably my number one source for new wines. They can assign you a private client rep who will get to know your preferences and alert you to opportunities for older wines when available. Bordeaux is my favorite category of wine, but the good ones need age. Lesser vintages can often be ready sooner, but the most recent good vintages are not yet ready: 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015, 2016.
I love VCC’s second label, La Gravette, but it is getting pricey, like $70. The cepage is more
Merlot heavy than the main wine.
+1
The “2nd wines” have become expensive so whenever I think about buying one I find something I’d rather have.
Lynch Bages - always quality but a real winner in the right vintages.
La Conseillante - same as above. This is a personal fav.
Smith Haut Lafiitte - has become more expensive but still quality. The 2001 might be a deal.
Gazin - definitely want it from good vintages.
Monbousquet - a good, fun Bordeaux. The 1998 is still quite a deal.
Pichon Lalande - Another personal fav but expensive.
There is a lot of “non Superstar”, good Bordeaux at auction for very reasonable prices.
Maybe look for some mixed cases that are already aged.
Good Luck.
I think I will mention Branaire Ducru. It is likely that none of us on this board regard Branaire as “elite”, but it is consistently a flat out delicious classified growth Bordeaux at a very reasonable price, does not need long aging…but does age pretty well. A very classy wine.
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Yup and yup.
I giggled when I recently found some 2016 for sub-$50. A stoopid value.
Les Forts de Latour is basically a $200 wine. For the same money, you can get Pichon Lalande or Baron. Both are far superior to the Les Forts. You can equally find better and cheaper equivalents with Carruades, Pavilion etc.
My top wines in your zone.
Vieux Chateau Certan
Ducru Beaucaillou
Pichon Lalande
Montrose
Surprised no mention of Pichon Baron, Haut Batailly, and Pontet Canet in addition to some previously mentioned above like VCC, Grand Puy Lacoste, Talbot, and Gruaud Larose. Montrose is 1st Growth quality in many years.
La Croix Ducru-Beaucaillou…Any
La Dame de Montrose…2010…Amazing!!
And available. You have to try THIS one. 75 - 80$
Chateau Larrivet Haut Brion
Currently picking up some 2010 of this. 50$ Outstanding!
Chateau Barde-Haut 2015
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Honestly, in that price range, some amazing wines to choose form.
On top of the ones mentioned already, some “off vintage” Cos d’Estournel are in that range.
What about a 2005 d’Issan for $125-ish? Even some of the newer d’Issan for less like the 2012, maybe only $80?
On the right bank, some top notch Pavie Macquin fits in there easily, even from great vintages.
I bought some 2008 Petit Cheval recently in that range as well.
Love all these wines.
Thanks everyone for the info. The number of my Winebid favorite searches just increased dramatically!
Plenty of good ideas here. My last hat to throw in the ring is to try an ‘85, a ‘96, and a ‘05. These are all ‘aged’ but will be very different. Figure out what you like before buying a ton.
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Tough to go wrong with that top four and I also have never been a huge fan of second wines as a general rule. If you have time on your side, Leoville Las Cases is also wonderful at the upper end of your range. At a slightly lower level, Leoville Barton and Lynch Bages are terrific.
Noah, there is a lot of good advice here. My favorites in your price range are Pichon Baron, Pichon Lalande and Haut Bailly. They all combine the power and elegance that is in our sweet spot. A few more to mention:
Langoa Barton – sells for much less than Leoville Barton and there are years where the quality ‘gap’ is much less than the price gap. 2005, for example.
D’Issan – 2005 and 2006 especially.
Brane Cantenac – I know you prefer older vintages but the 2015 and 2016 are outstanding.
Lastly, one of the best threads about Bordeaux is in the Hall of Fame thread, and covers Traditional vs. Modern Bordeaux. It is quite long, but there is a ton of good information.
Ed
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Lots of overlapping by advice here, many Chateau noted often. Speaks volumes. The three alone in Ed’s first paragraph are major winners in most vintages.
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I like Vieux Chateau Certan (it’s my biggest Bordeaux producer), but it’s not generally under $150. Searching wine-searcher for vintages that might be drinkable (and ignoring auctions), I found only the 2003, 2007, 2008 (a good vintage, but only one bottle available under $150) and 2013 for under $150, and honestly, who would want any of them other than the 2008? The 1999 gets close at $165. The 2004 is $190. The 2001 is up to $300.
There are so many good producers in Bordeaux (it probably offers the best deals in high-end wine) that it’s hard to generalize. I think the key distinction is whether you are looking for 1) the best cab blend in the world at some $25 to $50 price point – Bordeaux offers many candidates, or 2) something just as good as a super high end first growth/Cheval Blanc type wine for one-third the price – Bordeaux offers a lot of those too. But they are pretty different things to pursue because the second category is only a “value” in a relative sense, it is a $150-200 wine as good as a $600 wine, or perhaps a $300 wine as good as a $900-1000 wine.
From the reference to “elite” Bordeaux it seems the OP is looking for the second?