Bordeaux 2014

WINE TALK
21

I’ll take a swing at this. I happen to like the less ripe vintages so am glad I bought, and wish I had bought more of, vintages like 1999, 2001 and 2004 (even 2008 had some really nice, inexpensive finds). But there are some vintages, say 1997, 2002, 2007 and 2011, that I just largely pass on. For me, there is no sense in buying Bordeaux in a weak vintage (BTW, 2002 Northern Medocs had a few stars) when there is so much Bordeaux available in the marketplace. I have to qualify that I do not pursue verticals of anything, preferring instead to buy selectively. A rare thing for me to do is what I have done with distinctive wines like Levet, where I bought every vintage from '04-'11. Levet Cote Rotie just happens to be a very unique wine and the winemaker allows the vintage to make the wine, thus really offering something distinctively different in every vintage.

BTW, while I declared a moratorium on buying Classified Growths after the 2010 vintage (I’m 48, so don’t wanna wait until 68 to appreciate), I did selectively buy some 2012s. It was tough to pass on quality Classified Growths that were being priced at $40-$50.

22

What Neal said, too. But he’s also older than me! [cheers.gif]

23

Fair question, but the better question is why buy the 2012 (or 2009 or 2010 for that matter) vintage of Chateau XXXXXX if the price is the same as say, the 1996? or 2000? Which would conceivably be a better wine than the 2012 (one would hope), definitely a more drinkable wine than any of them…and it’s the Bordeaux houses that are re-releasing these vintages at these prices, so provenance concerns are mitigated.

To the point about the negociant- From what I understand, there is a line out the door of competitors willing to take someone else’s allocation (for certain houses, not all). Hard to say no when it’s your livelihood.

24

The logic is undeniable where it is true. If you can find me Ducru Beau for $58 from 2000 or 1996 (or 2001 or 2004 for that matter), let me know. If you can find 2000 or 1996 Haut Brion for $250, be sure to post about it.

There are no doubt opportunities to back-fill with older vintages, and doing so has diminished my appetite for buying more recent vintages. But the notion that older wines are universally available for less is simply false in my experience.

25

Bordeaux is what opened my eyes to wine. As a matter of fact it was a 1985 Cheval Blanc, and I still have the bottle! I have really gotten into wine in the last 10 years, and I have realized that while nicely aged Bordeaux is a truly wonderful thing, it’s hard to bring myself to buy and hold for at least 10 years to get to a suitable drinking window. There are too many amazing CA wines out there at around $150/bottle

MacDonald
Schrader
Piper
Myriad
Fairchild
VHR

Just to name a few, that don’t need as long in the cellar for decent enjoyment.

I will still buy some Bordeaux, but it will probably only be stuff that has 10-15 years in the bottle. Maybe I dabble in futures again sometime when the next next vintage of the century comes around, but even then, probably only for the speculative benefits that would enable me to own some wine for free (and the slight thrill!)

26

Quiet you! Let’s bring this back to Bordeaux… [stirthepothal.gif]

FWIW, 2010 Ducru reminds me of most of the top 2013 Napa Cabs. Just saying…

27

:wink:

28

Thanks for the responses guys. I probably should have qualified that I tend to buy producers I like and am familiar with, often in the lesser acclaimed vintages as well. I will admit to more random purchases in better years to expand the producers I am familiar with. Especially with the 2010 vintage all over Europe. I am 47 and Bordeaux is new to me so I am trying to identify producers, even regions in Bordeaux, that I like. Right now that means trying younger wines as well as searching out older vintages, but mostly in the sub $100 range.

29

If these are the wines you like, I’m not sure why you would be interested in the Bordeaux that requires 15+ years in the cellar. Those seem to me to be non-overlapping styles of wine. Or am I misunderstanding you?

30

As has been pointed out, the current system in Bordeaux has worked very nicely over a period of time. The estates made wine, and with the help of the courtiers came up with a price for the merchants, who in turn sold the wines. There usually was money to be made; in good years there was enough to balance the bad ones when the wines were were left unsold and languished in warehouse. To some extent, the merchants for most of the twentieth century, probably had the upper hand in the relationship, but since 1982, that has been changing, and with the 2005 vintage, the chateaux have become truly dominant. They have so overpriced the wines in great years, the merchants cannot make enough money to cope with the cost holding on to the wines in the lean ones. They were so greedy, that 2010 which should have gone through the system and been snapped up by consumers took over a year to sell out.

With 2014, they can either leave enough money for the merchants to compensate them for the losses of 2011-2013, or, if as I suspect, they price the 2014s too high, some merchants may find it difficult to continue. Never mind, they feel there are enough old merchants with deep pockets to take their places and their allocations. It’s probably true in the short term.

I am not sure though unless we see some drastic changes, the business makes any sense in the long term. Latour has already decided to try a more direct approach with consumers, but most estates like it the way it is. So, as others have said, it will be interesting to see if they do price 2014 a little lower, and give the merchants an infusion of capital. The cynical me says that when the time comes they will not show the necessary restraint, deciding they will want every penny they can get, but maybe, just maybe I am wrong.

As it stands, for those consumers who have decided not to buy, I can only agree with you. Buying en primeur is a mug’s game, and I see no reason to play it. Unless money is put back into the system, so that not only can the merchants survive, but it makes financial sense for consumers to buy early, the system will have well and truly been broken.

31

Reading the thread on 2005, I was wondering if anyone is starting to open their 2014s? I suspect these are still very young, but thought they might be mid-term drinkers (10-20 years?). I don’t have much in my cellar, but was wondering whether to crack one of these open (not the PLL):

2014 Château Barde-Haut
2014 Domaine de Chevalier
2014 Château Gloria
2014 Château Malartic-Lagravière
2014 Château Malescot St. Exupéry
2014 Château Pavie Macquin
2014 Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande

32

We had the Pichon Lalande as part of a vertical last year. Completely, totally unready, adolescent, dour, unhappy, and even with time in the glass, still pissed off.

33

I opened a 2014 Grand Puy Lacoste a few weeks ago after reading some encouraging CT reviews suggesting it was looking good for early drinking. Big mistake – while there was some hints of nice Pauillac fruit and tobacco/earth/graphite, it was all hidden behind a massive, impenetrable wall of vegetal greenness. I finished the bottle, but it was a struggle. Won’t be touching my other bottles for a long time.

34

That is good to know. I have seen those favorable CT reviews also. I will continue to hold.

35

IMHO, the 2014 vintage is pretty classic. Not sure why anyone would expect the more classic wines in this vintage to be ready in 5-6 years. I won’t start popping them until they have 15 on them. Of course, I am not commenting on the modern darlings, I did not buy any. Barde Haute would be a possibility if you just had to crack one. Do not touch that Lalande, it is an awesome wine and will shine with the requisite time, like any good classic vintage will. I also bought and think highly of Domaine de Chevalier and Grand Puy Lacoste. I bought more of the GPL after trying one immediately on release. I bought six in futures and then grabbed three more.

I’m sitting here drinking a classic 1995. This is why we age them. It’s a different drink with time as the ancillary and tertiary characteristics come to the fore.

36

I’m a little to the party here. Again :grin:

Not sure why they want to change from the negociant system. For a small amount of money, their wines are offered to as many as 80 countries in a few hours. It’s economical for buyers and sellers.

That has nothing to do with the value of buying or not buying futures.

That being said, you will probably see a change going forward in when the wines are tasted and sold.

2019 will probably be tasted and offered for sale in 2021. 2020 could be pushed to 2022, etc.

As for 2014, I am a big fan of the wines from Saint Julien, Pauillac and Saint Estephe. Great style, good quality, they drink well early and they are fairly priced.

Here’s a surprise, Alfret and I both like the wines. Though I think most wines at the top end will be delicious by 10 years of age. Yes, they could get better but that’s a fair amount of time to wait before popping most of them.

37

Ha! I’ve always said it’s like a Venn Diagram. You and I both have a love of classic clarets from the prime appellations. Your notes on them are very helpful. I just generally don’t like those liquid sex milkshakes that drive you bonkers! [wow.gif] I personally would not be popping wines like Lalande at 10. Wines like Gloria, Lanessan, Sociando, sure. I agree with you on those appellations in 2014, such winners!

38

Have the two of you ever met? An across the table tasting would be a podcast video for the decades.

39

I am sure the chateau owners don’t want to change the system. It’s heavily weighted in their favor. The negotiants pay early on, take all of the market risk, and are basically forced into buying irrespective of the vintage. They also have all the infrastructure to sell in the marketplace, and the logistical expertise to know how to get it there. Chateaux could mimic this, but it would cost them a fortune.

In the coming years, with great to very good vintages dating back to 2014, there will be plenty of good unsold wine in their warehouses, 2018, ‘17, ‘16, ‘15 and of course ‘14 will join up with the unlovable and unsold 2013 and the slightly better 2012s. Plenty of these wines in Bordeaux. In fact, in the last week I have been offered both 2015 and 2016 below their opening prices. Negotiants are hurting, they cannot keep going this way, I hear the larger ones are already putting pressure for short term relief and long term changes.

As for 2014, I will make it unanimous. It is a very good vintage, and the most classic Bordeaux of this century. But they will need time; there is no way that the top end will be ready in four years. Even the lesser ones will need more time, especially with the slightly angular tannins that is characteristic of 2014. The 2015s will be ready years before this. This will need at least twenty years.

40

Had the '14 Sociando last weekend and it was fantastic. Surprisingly expressive and well integrated at this stage.