Bordeaux 2016 vintage

[Joe_B]

Vintage of the century.

I am buying.

[A_S_K_R_O_B_A_C_K]

With the continuing plummet of the euro to the dollar, I don’t see why anyone would buy the 2016s on future without expecting a consistent drop in US pricing. I certainly won’t. Bordeaux produces enormous quantities and scarcity, at all but a few estates, is manufactured. As noted above, the warehouses are full and fools rush in imho.

[Peter_Panzica]

@Jeff Leve

From the insignificant amount of wines released so far, it is impossible to conclude what will happen one way or the other. The frost that struck Bordeaux last week decimated several vineyards, mostly in the Right Bank, but in Pessac Leognan and parts of the Medoc as well for 2017. That will have an effect on pricing.

FWIW, 2016 d’Armailhac is much better wine than they produced in 2014 & 2015, so you should expect to pay more money. That is not the same for all producers, but in their case it is.

Jeff, Did you go in April? I trust your palate.
I am looking to get a few cases for my son who was born in 2016.
Short of first growths and the like (which I may buy by the bottle) which chateaus would you buy by the case?
Cos looks attractive given the reviews at $150/btl.
I have no idea what will happen to prices between now and 2019 but will probably pull the trigger on a some futures for the first time since the 2003 vintage.
Thanks.

[Jeff_Cassetta]

@A S K R O B A C K

With the continuing plummet of the euro to the dollar, I don’t see why anyone would buy the 2016s on future without expecting a consistent drop in US pricing. I certainly won’t. Bordeaux produces enormous quantities and scarcity, at all but a few estates, is manufactured. As noted above, the warehouses are full and fools rush in imho.

The Euro bottomed in December and it up almost 6% from the December averages.

[Markus_S]

@Robert Alfert

… Ducru B at $165, Pichon Lalande for less, and my local ABC was just clearancing … Leoville Las Cases for $165.

Discount? These used to be under $50 wines! (yeah, awhile ago, but still…)

[David_Bu3ker]

@Markus S

@Robert Alfert

… Ducru B at $165, Pichon Lalande for less, and my local ABC was just clearancing … Leoville Las Cases for $165.

Discount? These used to be under $50 wines! (yeah, awhile ago, but still…)

A long while ago…granted they are too expensive (despite any defense from Mr. Leve), but sub-$50 was too long ago to be relevant, except for a couple of isolated data points.

[Mark_Golodetz]

I bought my first 2016: 3 bottles of Montrose. I think I will be buying about a case and a half of super seconds. Pricing seems about right, apart from a few Pomerols such as la Pointe.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Jeff Leve

From the insignificant amount of wines released so far, it is impossible to conclude what will happen one way or the other. The frost that struck Bordeaux last week decimated several vineyards, mostly in the Right Bank, but in Pessac Leognan and parts of the Medoc as well for 2017. That will have an effect on pricing.

FWIW, 2016 d’Armailhac is much better wine than they produced in 2014 & 2015, so you should expect to pay more money. That is not the same for all producers, but in their case it is.

Here we have our annual post from Jeff re buy, buy, buy because prices are going up

[Mark_Golodetz]

I think he is showing admirable restraint.

[ToddFrench]

I read Jancis Robinson’s email this morning, and thought this paragraph was poignant:

“One heavily involved wine merchant described the Bordeaux 2016 en primeur campaign to me on Wednesday as ‘rolling along like molasses’. Considering there is likely to be a halt to releases in honour of Vinexpo next month, the owners of most of the major châteaux really are dragging their feet over announcing prices. I’m almost certainly naive but I hate this aspect of Bordeaux: everyone waiting to see what their neighbours will do and wanting to get a better price than them. It all goes to show how little prices have to do with costs. And the situation this year is being made even messier by the tiny tranches released by some châteaux.”

Indeed it is frustrating, this aspect of the marketplace where the Chateau wait for others before determining prices. Doesn’t seem to reflect anywhere else in the marketplace, yet those of us who are fans of Bordeaux put up with it. I guess the concept is that the better vintages profit the Chateau whereas the lesser vintages are a loss, but it still is frustrating to wait. I’m still waiting for l’Evangile to price out in futures.

(I did reply to Jancis - or the person who published the email - to make sure it was ok to post. Haven’t heard back yet, but I might have to remove if permission is denied. I’m enjoying her emails more and more, frankly)

[Neal.Mollen]

@Todd F r e n c h

I read Jancis Robinson’s email this morning, and thought this paragraph was poignant:

“One heavily involved wine merchant described the Bordeaux 2016 en primeur campaign to me on Wednesday as ‘rolling along like molasses’. Considering there is likely to be a halt to releases in honour of Vinexpo next month, the owners of most of the major châteaux really are dragging their feet over announcing prices. I’m almost certainly naive but I hate this aspect of Bordeaux: everyone waiting to see what their neighbours will do and wanting to get a better price than them. It all goes to show how little prices have to do with costs. And the situation this year is being made even messier by the tiny tranches released by some châteaux.”

Indeed it is frustrating, this aspect of the marketplace where the Chateau wait for others before determining prices. Doesn’t seem to reflect anywhere else in the marketplace, yet those of us who are fans of Bordeaux put up with it. I guess the concept is that the better vintages profit the Chateau whereas the lesser vintages are a loss, but it still is frustrating to wait. I’m still waiting for l’Evangile to price out in futures.

(I did reply to Jancis - or the person who published the email - to make sure it was ok to post. Haven’t heard back yet, but I might have to remove if permission is denied. I’m enjoying her emails more and more, frankly)

I am sure they know their business, but I wonder if the chateaux that wait miss sales because money that might have gone for wine A went instead to wine B, which announced earlier. If I wanted to buy some 2016 Pomerol on futures (I don’t just FYI) and La Fleur Petrus is announced at a decent price (it won’t be, FYI) I might spend the money I had allocated to 2016 Pomerol (there is none, BTW) before L’Evangile is available. Just a thought.

[James_S]

The Suck… is going to need to add 10 more points on top of his 100-point rating system to get by in the next few BDX "best vintage ever"s. But i guess the critic with the highest point scores is the winner these days.

[ToddFrench]

@Neal.Mollen

@Todd F r e n c h

I read Jancis Robinson’s email this morning, and thought this paragraph was poignant:

“One heavily involved wine merchant described the Bordeaux 2016 en primeur campaign to me on Wednesday as ‘rolling along like molasses’. Considering there is likely to be a halt to releases in honour of Vinexpo next month, the owners of most of the major châteaux really are dragging their feet over announcing prices. I’m almost certainly naive but I hate this aspect of Bordeaux: everyone waiting to see what their neighbours will do and wanting to get a better price than them. It all goes to show how little prices have to do with costs. And the situation this year is being made even messier by the tiny tranches released by some châteaux.”

Indeed it is frustrating, this aspect of the marketplace where the Chateau wait for others before determining prices. Doesn’t seem to reflect anywhere else in the marketplace, yet those of us who are fans of Bordeaux put up with it. I guess the concept is that the better vintages profit the Chateau whereas the lesser vintages are a loss, but it still is frustrating to wait. I’m still waiting for l’Evangile to price out in futures.

(I did reply to Jancis - or the person who published the email - to make sure it was ok to post. Haven’t heard back yet, but I might have to remove if permission is denied. I’m enjoying her emails more and more, frankly)

I am sure they know their business, but I wonder if the chateaux that wait miss sales because money that might have gone for wine A went instead to wine B, which announced earlier. If I wanted to buy some 2016 Pomerol on futures (I don’t just FYI) and La Fleur Petrus is announced at a decent price (it won’t be, FYI) I might spend the money I had allocated to 2016 Pomerol (there is none, BTW) before L’Evangile is available. Just a thought.

Didn’t think of that - good point. One would assume, as you said, they ‘know their business’, but such a system is rife with risks, like that.

[A_Songeur]

Indeed, the fact that Cos D’Estournel took the risk to launch early before the scores may be to the need to sell as much as possible early and a confirmation previous vintages did not sell welll and are cluttering storage.

[crickey]

Pavie and Angelus came out today. US price I saw was more the 2015, the first releases I have seen that were significantly higher than 2015 (which were not bargains).

[Mark_Golodetz]

Pavie sold out quickly in UK market; Angelus, I am told, struggled.

[ToddFrench]

L’Evangile, please!!!

[Doug_Mills]

Lynch Bages out this morning. Looks like it’s up 15%-20% but a relative bargain compared to yesterday’s Pavie/Angelus release.

[Soren_R_Nielsen]

In Denmark the following seems to be sold out:
Cos, Montrose, Hosanna, Pensées de Lafleur.

And the Pavie/Angelus are available @ $480 all tax incl. (Not My style anyway…)

The Euro/Dollar ratio has shifted some the last couple of months. Is this affecting current prices in US ?

-Søren.

[Doug_Mills]

The Lynch Bages sold out quickly in the UK. Only got half of what I wanted and no large format.