Bottle Damage - need some expert advice

WINE TALK
1

I’m a long-time lurker (and appreciator) of this forum, but this is my first post. Thanks, in advance, for your help, and for all of the other good advice I’ve found here in the past.

LAST WEEK
I got a fantastic deal on a 1995 bottle from what I believed (and still believe, I hope) to be a reputable online seller. Here are the photos that accompanied the listing:
[resizeableimage=100,100]http://wkujournalism.com/demarse/images/Listing-bottle.JPG[/resizeableimage] [resizeableimage=100,100]http://wkujournalism.com/demarse/images/Listing-label.JPG[/resizeableimage] [resizeableimage=100,100]http://wkujournalism.com/demarse/images/Listing-capsule.JPG[/resizeableimage]

TODAY
The wine arrived, along with five other bottles, this morning. The other five bottles were flawless, but my prized 1995 didn’t match the photos:
[resizeableimage=69,100]http://wkujournalism.com/demarse/images/Actual-bottle.jpg[/resizeableimage] [resizeableimage=99,100]http://wkujournalism.com/demarse/images/Actual-label.jpg[/resizeableimage] [resizeableimage=82,100]http://wkujournalism.com/demarse/images/Actual-capsule.jpg[/resizeableimage]

The stain at the top of the label was definitely caused by wine form this bottle, correct? Here’s a closer look at the label damage, and also a trail of residue that seems to lead from the capsule to the label. Also, the cork seems to be a little sunken.

So here are my big questions for you. I apologize for what may be some dumb questions. Despite lurking here for a long time, I’m still no expert.

  1. Is it possible that this is the same bottle from the listing? Could this damage have occurred during last week’s (well-packaged and insulated) FedEx shipment? How likely, would you say? Or is it a switched bottle? This particular retailer has sold five bottles of this vintage in the last month.

  2. What does this tell me about the wine in the bottle? Is it possible that the wine is still okay? Likely? If so, should it be opened now, or is it possibly still safe to hold onto for awhile?

  3. I intended to use this bottle as a gift for a friend. That’s out of the question now, in this condition, right? (Again, my wine etiquette is still developing.)

  4. What would you do in this situation, bearing in mind that I got this bottle for half of its value? Try to return it? Still gift it? Keep it for myself? If I keep it, should I open it this week? If I open it and find it tainted, do I have any further recourse?

I’m really eager to hear your thoughts and advice.

Thanks so much, in advance!
Ron

[I hope it’s okay that I’m posting this question to another wine forum that I frequent. Again - not sure of the proper etiquette.]

2

Ron, where was the seller located and where was it shipped to? Seeing as it’s Monday, it likely sat through the weekend before being delivered. Assuming the original images were accurate, it’s possible the bottles were heat damaged during delivery.

Edit. Looking at your post again, one bottle had seepage, but not the others. I’m still curious as to the weather conditions during shipment. I would contact the seller and let them know. A leaking bottle would certainly justify disclosure from the seller prior to sale.

3

From the mark on the lower right side of the label (from our perspective), it looks like the same bottle.
I would return it for a full refund.

4

When the bottle arrived was it warm to the touch? Also…was the cork protruding from the bottle that apparently leaked?

5

Good catch Mike. I think you’re right, same bottle.

This is probably a shipping issue. I would contact the retailer and see what they suggest. If you asked them to send ground and it was caused in transit, you maybe be SOL. Good luck.

6

I noticed that the retailer with the lowest price on Wine Searcher lists 4 bottles, all with slightly depressed corks and 1 bottle with signs of seepage, but I don’t know when this description was added or if the OP bought his bottle from that retailer.

The pictures certainly don’t match what was delivered, which is certainly a basis for objection with the store. If the retailer is the one from Wine Searcher, another question would be if they had some bottles with signs of seepage and others that didn’t, why they filled your order with a leaker and not one with no sign of seepage. And if the condition description was added after you placed your order, why that information wasn’t disclosed previously.

That said, with the quality of the fill, the wine has a good chance of being sound. And while I wouldn’t expect a pristine label with a 20-year old wine, I wouldn’t give a bottle with signs of seepage on the label as a gift.

7

Thanks a lot for all of the feedback and advice. You guys are the best.

Taylor - Sorry, I should’ve included those (shipping) details in the original post. They’re below.
Mike - Great eye! Yes, based on that mark in both photos, it definitely seems that this is the same bottle. Even more evidence below.
Josh - No, none of the bottles were warm at all. And no, the cork is not protruding at all. In fact, it’s a bit depressed.

The wine shipped from Torrance, CA last Tuesday. FedEx Ground was the only service offered. I was a bit nervous about it, but the forecast was relatively cool and I thought (hoped) FedEx could get it to the Midwest by the end of the week. The weather remained pretty good, and the wine was indeed on the FedEx truck and ready for delivery on Saturday, as you can see here:
[resizeableimage=69,100]http://wkujournalism.com/demarse/images/FedEx.jpg[/resizeableimage]
In fact, the truck pulled up and delivered a package to my neighbor on Saturday morning … and then, inexplicably, drove off. The next two days weren’t scorching, but they were definitely hotter, and I wonder if the box just sat on the truck for 48 hours. I’m not sure how FedEx operates.

One thing I should’ve checked right away (but didn’t) was the condition of the styrofoam shipping container. There is definitely evidence of leakage:
[resizeableimage=69,100]http://wkujournalism.com/demarse/images/Actual-shippingcontainer.jpg[/resizeableimage]
That - along with the mark on the label - makes it pretty clear that 1) this is the same bottle, and 2) the leakage occurred in transit.

Taking all of the evidence into account - the pattern of leakage in the container and on the bottle, the depressed cork and the fact that this occurred in the last several days - does this seem like heat damage? Damage from shaking or jostling? A pre-existing problem that was exacerbated in transit? Something else entirely? And what effect will that have on the wine? Can I still expect it to be good? Sounds like I shouldn’t push my luck, though, and open it sooner rather than later?

Finally, if the seller says, “Sorry - not my fault,” that may be fair, right? (As much as I would hate to admit it.)

Again - I really appreciate this. Thanks so much!

Ron

8

Ground delivery does not mean Saturday delivery. I think those bottles sat on the truck over the weekend which from a heat standpoint is worse than in the terminal. My guess is that is where the damage occurred.

9

FedEx delivery days are Tuesday through Saturday. No up charge or difference for Saturday. If you check the tracking too, it says on vehicle for delivery on 6/6. That tells me you have one of those remarkable FedEx drives for your neighborhood.

I’d be concerned, and the retailer you bought this from should be able to have a viable claim against FedEx given the before and after pics. I’d bring that up if you aren’t getting a favorable answer from them.

10

There are parameters on Saturday delivery that I won’t go into here, but it’s not SOP for every address. So the shipper may have an out.

11

I would call the retailer too. I don’t think the leaking is from heat. I it just leaked. Faulty cork. The box gets thrown around during delivery, stored upside down, etc., and if the cork is marginal at all, that could be sufficient to cause the leakage. But the cork isn’t protruding and the fill is pretty good, as mentioned. The wine might be oxidized, it might be dead, or it might be just fine like a 1995 Togni should be. That’s the beauty of cork - you never know.

As far as using it as a gift - the look of the label wouldn’t concern me but the bad cork would. I hope you paid with a credit card.

I don’t know how anyone can blame Fed Ex though - they didn’t damage the bottle. If they weren’t told and paid to keep it cool at all times, they simply did what they were supposed to do.

12

tue-sat for residential only. M-Friday for business addresses (or if was set as Fedex Ground opposed to home delivery)

13

Ron, first of all, great job on documenting the situation! Given your documentation, you have a slam dunk case with the seller for getting a credit if that is what you want to pursue, and they have a slam dunk case against FedX to get a refund, assuming it was insured.

Personally, the fill still looks great. and if I bought it planning to consume it in the near term, I would. It should be fine if consumed soon. However, you meant it as a gift, and for that purpose, it is damaged goods.

To Mike Evans: The retailer you mention is on Staten Island. This wine was shipped from Torrance, CA. Not the same oufit.

Ron, even though your neighbor got a FedX delivery that Saturday, there is NO way to know if your wine was on the same truck. It was on some FedX truck that day, and you would think it should have been on the same truck, but you just can’t know. And Tuesday to Monday cross country ground shipping from CA to KY is the norm, it is probably going to sit somewhere over the weekend.

You say you got it for half price, so I assume somewhere in the $70-80 dollar range given the WS listings. If so, I would contact the seller, request another bottle be sent, since you want to give it as a gift, and either return the first bottle, or offer to keep it and drink it, either for free or at a further discount givn the condition. A top notch retailer tells you to keep it and sends you a free replacment, but I can see where some would want you to return it. But WTH are they going to do with it?

14

My only frustration with FedEx was that they updated the package status to “On FedEx vehicle for delivery” at 5:30am on Saturday, and the truck pulled up outside my house at 9am (for a neighbor’s delivery), but they didn’t actually deliver the wine until Monday. Could’ve been a different truck. Could’ve been some delivery nuance that I wasn’t aware of. Plenty of rational explanations, I guess. And if Greg is correct - that the leakage was cause by jostling a brittle cork - then those two extra days probably didn’t matter anyway. And the indented cork seems to point in that direction (and away from overheating), right?

At any rate, the vendor - TKWine of Torrance, CA - has been great. In fact, they just offered a full refund. But I’m a little torn.

  1. If this was caused by a faulty cork, it’s perfectly reasonable to expect them to replace the bottle, right? And there’s a fair likelihood that the wine will be spoiled, correct?
  2. But if this was caused by shaking/jostling in transit, it’s not really their fault. And they won’t be able to re-sell the bottle, will they? I was hoping to gift this wine, but if we think it’s probably okay, I could just “gift” it to myself this weekend. Maybe work out a token discount with them? So everyone’s happy (enough) and they don’t have to lose a $150 bottle.

Maybe I’m overthinking this. I haven’t bought many bottles in this price range, so I’m not sure what’s reasonable, or what etiquette dictates.

Thanks again,
Ron

15

Thanks, Chuck. That makes perfect sense - both regarding the FedEx truck and the return situation (our last two messages posted simultaneously, I think). Yes, I got the bottle for $70, so my first thought was that they pulled a bait-and-switch because of the low price, but that definitely seems NOT to be the case. I may take them up on the return, but I don’t want to be a jerk about it, and if the wine is still good, I’m happy to drink it. So the fill is a good indicator of quality in a situation like this? If the cork is less-than-perfect, and that’s what led to the leakage, does that make for increased likelihood of other problems?

16

Given the info as presented, it looks like heat damage to me.

I would take the seller up I the refund, sing their praises and give them future business.

17

I don’t think heat damage…if it was heat damaged the cork would have push out (I believe I am correct on this point but please correct me if I’m wrong).

I am of the opinion of a lose fitting cork where wine leaked out during transit either by the way the package was handled or from a bumpy ride or from the box possibly being placed upside down on the truck.

As to how to handle the return I am not sure…I wouldn’t give it as a gift in its condition. I guess you could return it for a replacement bottle…or…you could drink it!

18

If the full refund involves sending the bottle back (at their expense), then do it. If they are letting you keep the bottle, pop the ucork soon and you can determine whether the wine is good, great, or a rustic, tannic monster with green tinges (my experience with Togni from that era). If you like it, buy one or more of their remaining stock and give your friend a nice bottle of it. If you don’t, buy him/her something else.

19

+1

It is cooked and has a short window of life left.

20

Not necessarily. If the wine was frozen then yes the cork most likely would have been pushed up as they frozen state would be expanded from the liquid state. If heat damaged, the cork may just have seeped.

IMHO this sort of seepage probably did not occur due to a cork being jostled. Given the wine was in good condition before being shipped and it shipped across the country in late spring for almost a week, my guess is heat damage.