Brett in Burgundy - the red wine premox?

[Herwig_Janssen]

A couple of months ago , I had dinner with Allen Meadows . I brought a 1995 Chambertin from Leroy . It was undrinkable , because of excessive bret aromas .

[billnanson]

In my (modest) experience - far from a surprise…

[larry_schaffer]

A couple of months ago , I had dinner with Allen Meadows . I brought a 1995 Chambertin from Leroy . It was undrinkable , because of excessive bret aromas .

Did everyone at the table ‘agree’ that the brett was excessive? Or is he more ‘hyper sensitive’ than other reviewers?

I know this has been discussed in the past, but one person’s ‘barnyard’ is another person’s ‘terroir’ - and I would guess these ‘tolerance levels’ are different from person to person, and reviewer to reviewer.

Then there could always be the good old ‘bottle variation’ where one person is tasting a ‘clean’ or ‘relatively clean’ bottle and another is tasting a ‘heavily affected’ one . . .

Cheers.

[Fred_C]

In my (modest) experience - far from a surprise…

Because of 95 vintage or Leroy Chambertin?

I have had a corked 90 Beaumonts but haven’t heard of Brett being a problem.

[Markus_S]

How many 2004s have you had lately? Most are not good. And, I have never said the issue is ladybugs and am skeptical that this is the issue. If you want some 2004s, I am happy to sell you some.

We could always pop them open at your house…for Science, of course.

[Markus_S]

I have found this to be pretty useful. start [Oxidized Burgundies] Any wine writer could have done something similar with respect to his experiences over the years.

But how ‘useful’ is this list, really? It lists about 95% of the exported Burgundy, so is actually less than useless.

[john_holdredge]

So, is your recommendation that we stop buying Burgundy until this is figured out?

I don’t know Howard- too soon to tell.

At this point I am about done buying burgundy. I turn 46 this year, and most of 2016s will not be ready until I am in my late 60s. And as infrequently as I drink wine, I already have a lifetime supply. I will do a few 2017s, but I cannot see buying much after.


So for me, stopping is pretty easy because I am almost there anyway.

As a compulsive wine buyer for nearly 40 years- that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on this board.

Sure, you can stop. We all can.

Anytime.


Really.

[Herwig_Janssen]

Larry , the brett was not excessive , the wine was undrinkable . That is a big difference . I don’t mind a little brett at all .

[larry_schaffer]

Larry , the brett was not excessive , the wine was undrinkable . That is a big difference . I don’t mind a little brett at all .

Gotcha - but I was responding to your OP where you stated that there was excessive brett.

Did everyone agree on the brett?

Cheers

[Herwig_Janssen]

Yes

[CFu]

So, is your recommendation that we stop buying red Burgundy until this is figured out?

Please, please, yes.

It’s certainly possible that there is a problem at some addresses, or specific wines. OTOH, I can’t remember the last time I had an obviously bretty Burg. It’s never been something I’ve noticed in any wine at La Paulee, for example, where a lot of quality wines get poured. As for Meadows, given that almost every young wine he tastes is marked by “reduction”, I’m reluctant to trust his judgment on brett, at least in barrel samples or recently bottled wines.

06 liger belair colombiere at High Treason! Sooooooo bretty

[larry_schaffer]

With higher levels of brett being noticed, one wonders about provenance of bottles post bottling over time as well. Do you think ‘less care’ is being given to these bottles now compared to a decade ago? Just curious . . .

Cheers

[Alan_Rath]

It’s certainly possible that there is a problem at some addresses, or specific wines. OTOH, I can’t remember the last time I had an obviously bretty Burg. It’s never been something I’ve noticed in any wine at La Paulee, for example, where a lot of quality wines get poured. As for Meadows, given that almost every young wine he tastes is marked by “reduction”, I’m reluctant to trust his judgment on brett, at least in barrel samples or recently bottled wines.

06 liger belair colombiere at High Treason! Sooooooo bretty

True. There are obviously examples. But not something I notice on the majority of Burgs I open or tastes, that’s all I was saying.

[billnanson]

In my (modest) experience - far from a surprise…

Because of 95 vintage or Leroy Chambertin?

I have had a corked 90 Beaumonts but haven’t heard of Brett being a problem.

Because of 3 different 99s from the domaine that I’ve had - one has been lovely the other two were full of brett - close to my tipping point - and I am modestly tolerant…

[David_Glasser]

So, is your recommendation that we stop buying Burgundy until this is figured out?

I don’t know Howard- too soon to tell.

At this point I am about done buying burgundy. I turn 46 this year, and most of 2016s will not be ready until I am in my late 60s. And as infrequently as I drink wine, I already have a lifetime supply. I will do a few 2017s, but I cannot see buying much after.


So for me, stopping is pretty easy because I am almost there anyway.

As a compulsive wine buyer for nearly 40 years- that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on this board.

Sure, you can stop. We all can.

Anytime.


Really.

I’ve been quite successful at stopping.

Many times.

[Shan_A]

Does Brett increase over time in an individual bottle? I.E., if a bottle is a little bretty on release, does the bacteria grow over the next 20YRs to become a brett bomb?

[GregP]

Does Brett increase over time in an individual bottle? I.E., if a bottle is a little bretty on release, does the bacteria grow over the next 20YRs to become a brett bomb?

Very unpredictable since it all depends on so many factors.

[Shan_A]

Does Brett increase over time in an individual bottle? I.E., if a bottle is a little bretty on release, does the bacteria grow over the next 20YRs to become a brett bomb?

Very unpredictable since it all depends on so many factors.

That’s quite scary for buying a youngish Burg with a bit a brett on the nose.

[Eric_Lundblad]

It can often be very difficult to tell the difference between brett and reduction, esp in a young burg. The most reliable indicator/test is that brett gets worse with air time, and reduction gets better. Also, Brett is a yeast, not a bacteria!

[Yao_C]

Does Brett increase over time in an individual bottle? I.E., if a bottle is a little bretty on release, does the bacteria grow over the next 20YRs to become a brett bomb?

Very unpredictable since it all depends on so many factors.

Isn’t it true though that high temperatures are a necessary precondition for brett to grow? In other words if you store bottles at 50F whatever brett is there won’t multiply