Burgundian Recommendations for California Oregon Pinots

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Given the vast range of expression of site in Pinot Noir, the idea that there’s no crossover in our Venn diagram with Burgundy is foolish.

This i agree with… there are overlaps in flavor / smell b/c well ultimately it’s the SAME grape.
To me if the question is: What are some OR/CA pinot producers that have x.y.z characteristics… that’s a fair question…
All respect to the OP… the OP question is quite a long list of factors, which gets a bit odd.. b/c to satisfy all A-J criteria, why not just get Burgundy

Always gonna be dudes who want their $50 Champagne to replicate Salon.

I probably felt this way a while back. But I paid $220 yesterday for a bottle of Dujac 1er Cru Morey St. Denis for a tasting. Morey St. Denis is a solid but not a great commune(IMO).

And decent St. Aubin is $80 now?

There is always a dude that wants his Salon for $50, and at some point there are dudes that won’t pay $200 for Chiquet, even if Salon is $500.

[Jay_Miller]

All respect to the OP… the OP question is quite a long list of factors, which gets a bit odd… b/c to satisfy all A-J criteria, why not just get Burgundy

Maybe because he’s preparing himself for tariff pricing?

Or maybe he just wants to try good wines from a different region which are in his stylistic preference and his reference point is Burgundy.

[Corey_N]

I’m late to the game, but I agree with Jay’s recommendations of Oregon Pinots. Just the other day I was saying that Marcus’ Pinots really need to be contextualized with Premier Cru from Burgundy.

As for the discussion of Briceland, I would agree with the winemaker that his Ronda’s Vineyard wines are most “Burgundian”. I’ve been doing a small test and I think they become somewhat more similar to Burgundy with age, though I have decided that if I prefer them just a bit on the young side.

[Mark_Y]

I probably felt this way a while back. But I paid $220 yesterday for a bottle of Dujac 1er Cru Morey St. Denis for a tasting.

And decent St. Aubin is $80 now?

That is true… … painful indeed…

[Shan_A]

Or maybe he just wants to try good wines from a different region which are in his stylistic preference and his reference point is Burgundy.

Bingo

It’s funny how terroir can be a little bit like religion. It’s a beautiful thing until someone starts telling you how it has to be…

Love this, thank you Marcus for your participation on this thread. Have a couple of your recommendations in a shopping cart right now…

[Shan_A]

Posted in the offline section, but I will likely set up a blind offline in NYC with many of the wines from this thread, with equivalently priced burgundies

[Mark_Y]

All respect to the OP… the OP question is quite a long list of factors, which gets a bit odd… b/c to satisfy all A-J criteria, why not just get Burgundy

Maybe because he’s preparing himself for tariff pricing?
Or maybe he just wants to try good wines from a different region which are in his stylistic preference and his reference point is Burgundy.

Oh absolutely, and like i said, all respect to the OP, i’m not bashing his question. You kinda selectively quoted my words.
I said right above that line, that if the question was I’m looking for a Pinot with in a new world region that has Burg traits, that’s more understandable for me.
When it’s 10 specific variables, it might make it academically difficult. i just found it amusing i guess, to each their own.

I mean, some of those were reallly specific/nuanced… hahaha
cherry not cranberry, more red than black, but red/black is ok…clean/pure/mineral … but not cloudy/fuzzy/inky… has earth/bramble/black tea, pine, but NOT menthol or cinnamon. and thats’ just THREE of the TEN!

[Ian_H]

Posted in the offline section, but I will likely set up a blind offline in NYC with many of the wines from this thread, with equivalently priced burgundies

This sounds great, I would love to join you.

[Steve_Eisenhauer]

Josh Jensen spent a lot of effort to find a place in California that came close to Burgundy terroir. The style at Calera seems to have changed a bit unfortunately. But pre-change (somewhere in the oughts, I think) Calera was kind of unique in Cali.

[Sebastian_C]

Josh Jensen spent a lot of effort to find a place in California that came close to Burgundy terroir. The style at Calera seems to have changed a bit unfortunately. But pre-change (somewhere in the oughts, I think) Calera was kind of unique in Cali.

I have a friend who has drank quite a bit of high end GC burgundy and he says some of the older Calera reminded him of a famous burgundy domaine. Won’t mention the name as to not offend the purists.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Posted in the offline section, but I will likely set up a blind offline in NYC with many of the wines from this thread, with equivalently priced burgundies

Thank you, that sounds like a great event(I wish I lived closer).

In our tastings, I have found equivalent vintages to be more important than equivalent price. We don’t have as much $30-50 Burgundy out here, partly the extra distance and partly because local wines and Piemontese wines get a bigger share of retail shelves.

The vintages, generally speaking, correlate very well, except 2011(imo). If you’re planning on going back beyond 2015, let me know-I’m happy to dig something out of library for the event.

[Craig_G]

Sounds like you’re looking for a Burgundy.

This is my feeling as well. I’ve tasted a lot of CA Pinot and at the end, I have a $20 Burgundy that I’d rather drink than any CA Pinot Noir. This is obviously personal taste and I can’t make any argument that simple Burgundies are better quality than good CA Pinots. I just like them more.

[dteng]

Maybe the OP was posting this thread from an Oregon winery…

[Peter_Chiu]

+1
A lot of criteria to look through when you can just go to burgundy and get what you are looking for.
Plenty of awesome Oregon pinots… not sure any producer really truly hits the same way as a Burg. For me that’s perfectly fine as well.

Agreed, I like my Oregon wines to taste like they are from Oregon.

Exactly. I would think it should be considered a failure for an Oregon wine to taste like Burgundy. How can a Pinot based wine be really good if it is not true to its terroir?

****How can a Pinot based wine be really good if it is not true to its terroir? ***

How about if the terroir, in itself, is not really good, could the Pinot based wine taste good ?

The answer is : maybe it realty depends on the taste of the taster !

[Howard_Cooper]

Agreed, I like my Oregon wines to taste like they are from Oregon.

Exactly. I would think it should be considered a failure for an Oregon wine to taste like Burgundy. How can a Pinot based wine be really good if it is not true to its terroir?

****How can a Pinot based wine be really good if it is not true to its terroir? ***

How about if the terroir, in itself, is not really good, could the Pinot based wine taste good ?

The answer is : maybe it realty depends on the taste of the taster !

I think that all great wine comes from great terroir - and from someone who in farming and winemaking knows how to grow great grapes and make great wines from it. In today’s world, I think competent to good wine can come from great producers in lesser terroir.

But, you have a complete misunderstanding of my post and a wine being true to its terroir. When I said that all great pinot have to be true to its terroir, I am not saying that means California or Oregon Pinot is inferior to Burgundy. It means it will taste different from Burgundy, just like a great wine from Vosne Romanee should taste different from a great wine from Chambolle-Musigny. Do you think it would be a compliment to an Oregon producer to say that his pinot tastes just like a California Pinot (and vice versa). There are outstanding terroirs for different grapes all over the world. Yet somehow you find an equivalence between different from Burgundy to lesser than Burgundy, which is not at all what I said.

And, to answer your question, if you really believe that great wine can be made from lesser terroir, please list all the great wines you have had from California’s Central Valley.

[RichardFlack]

Exactly. I would think it should be considered a failure for an Oregon wine to taste like Burgundy. How can a Pinot based wine be really good if it is not true to its terroir?

****How can a Pinot based wine be really good if it is not true to its terroir? ***

How about if the terroir, in itself, is not really good, could the Pinot based wine taste good ?

The answer is : maybe it realty depends on the taste of the taster !

I think that all great wine comes from great terroir - and from someone who in farming and winemaking knows how to grow great grapes and make great wines from it. In today’s world, I think competent to good wine can come from great producers in lesser terroir.

But, you have a complete misunderstanding of my post and a wine being true to its terroir. When I said that all great pinot have to be true to its terroir, I am not saying that means California or Oregon Pinot is inferior to Burgundy. It means it will taste different from Burgundy, just like a great wine from Vosne Romanee should taste different from a great wine from Chambolle-Musigny. Do you think it would be a compliment to an Oregon producer to say that his pinot tastes just like a California Pinot (and vice versa). There are outstanding terroirs for different grapes all over the world. Yet somehow you find an equivalence between different from Burgundy to lesser than Burgundy, which is not at all what I said.

And, to answer your question, if you really believe that great wine can be made from lesser terroir, please list all the great wines you have had from California’s Central Valley.

“Somewhereness” (Sense of place) vs style. An intriguing distinction - which I think the OP is aware of, he is referring to style:

more Burgundian style (although they may not exactly be Burgundies)

[Shan_A]

Thank you for the recommendations. Summarizing it up:

6 Kelley Fox
6 Arcadian
5 Stick with Burgundy
4 Good Fellow
4 Arterberry Maresh
3 Cameron
3 Cristom
3 Eyrie
3 Kutch
2 Au Bon Climat
2 Belle Pente
2 Briceland (Ronda)
2 Patricia Green
2 Scherrer
2 Vincent

Ayoub
ABC
Biggio Hamina
Birichino
Calera (old)
Ceritas
Clos Saron
Cobb
Franny Beck
Littorai
Mason Wines
Mount Eden
Occidental SWK
Raen Fort Ross
Rhys
Rose and Arrow
Sandler
Soliste
Thomas
Whitcraft
Williams Seylem (old)