California cabernet, current producers in the Old School

[Nathan_V]

@mike pobega

@Bill Tex Landreth

@mike pobega

Tasting notes to back that up would be appreciated.

Do you REALLY want to read that drivel?

Its amazing how Keith can accomplish making his reco the ‘ONE’-- all while discounting anyone else’s, all with one wave of the hand no less, all with no supporting back info–pretty good parlor trick.

Everyone else gets 51 points

We get it, the Renaissance is auster, it’s obscure, it’s from a hill miles away from Napa, the latest release is the 1973…we get it. And no, I have not had it.

Renaissance has been very hit and miss for me. Not great terroir either, but not central valley either.

[Nathan_V]

Before this gets totally side-tracked, I do want to say thanks for suggestions.

This is a sincere attempt by me to try to find out about new things.

I should have added that my cellar had less than 10 bottles of cabernet left in it and I’ve been enjoying my last Laurel Glen Montebello and Dunns this year and was looking for stuff I might want to re-load with for future drinking. I don’t know enough about the current state of affairs to locate what I might like.

So, thanks again for these suggestions.

[mike_pobega]

If you liked the Long Meadow Ranch, you should most definitely try the Hoopes and Gargiulo mentioned earlier, but then again, I would wait for Keith’s forthcoming notes to solidify that reco…

BTW, the Long Meadow Ranch does pretty good in off years. A great 03 was sampled a few years back at a time when many 03s were dissapointing. A good QPR as well.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@mike pobega

If you liked the Long Meadow Ranch, you should most definitely try the Hoopes and Gargiulo mentioned earlier, but then again, I would wait for Keith’s forthcoming notes to solidify that reco…

BTW, the Long Meadow Ranch does pretty good in off years. A great 03 was sampled a few years back at a time when many 03s were dissapointing. A good QPR as well.

As an aside to this…their Prato Lungo Olive Oil is hands down the best I have ever had from any producer.

[Kevin_Porter]

@Nathan V.

In any event, I didn’t like those versions of Seavey. To soupy for me. Is there a second wine or something?

Caravina?

[Randy_Sloan]

Nathan, where do you live? Do you have good access to California Cabs? Perhaps you should start with tastings rather than just buying hit-and-miss.

[Nathan_V]

@Kevin Porter

@Nathan V.

In any event, I didn’t like those versions of Seavey. To soupy for me. Is there a second wine or something?

Caravina?

Could be. Honestly can’t remember.

[Nathan_V]

@Randy Sloan

Nathan, where do you live? Do you have good access to California Cabs? Perhaps you should start with tastings rather than just buying hit-and-miss.

Durham, NC.

Have no idea how good my access is.

Apex beverage email blasts some cabernet, but I’ve never looked at what they have in stock when I’m there. Usually just BSing with Eric.

[Nathan_Smyth]

Togni.

Fisher Wedding.

The 1995 Mondavi Reserve.

And there are even vintages [like 2004] in which Caymus Special Selection can be a relatively light-bodied wine.

[mike_pobega]

Nathan, Right now I am sipping a 1999 Frazier Cab that fits your bill. Mature, pure and elegant without being a head beater. Very nice indeed.
Add Frazier to my list…

[G_D_y_e_r]

@Nathan V.

@Keith Levenberg

Nathan -

The correct answer is Renaissance. No need to look any further. Mayacamas is also an acceptable answer although there ain’t much point buying the new ones when the old ones pop up all the time for the same money. The same goes for Mt. Eden.

All of the other answers you’ve gotten so far are wrong.

I know Renaissance, I was just hoping for somethings I didn’t know about (and from better terroir). Maybe someone like Copain or Ojai, re-thinking what they were trying to do and moving in a different direction or someone who has always made wines in a style I might like but is under the radar so that I wouldn’t know about them.

I’m curious why Renaissance (N. Yuba) is considered to have inferior terroir. Napa has volcanic rock, fertile soil, a large diurnal flux, and hot daytime temperatures. But (Left Bank) Bordeaux has gravel, infertile soil, a small(er) diurnal flux, and true ocean moderated temperatures. Bordeaux isn’t really sold on terroir like say Burgundy, but it’s not considered to be inferior.

The reason I invoke Bordeaux is because if N. Yuba is at significant elevation, this should lead to moderate temperature with a smaller diurnal flux. So, in principle, more Bordeaux-like conditions. But maybe the mean temperatures are too high and the soil isn’t right. It doesn’t seem obvious to me that that region has inferior terroir just because it is different from Napa.

[Glenn_L_e_v_i_n_e]

Martin Estate Reserve Puerta Dorada is one that might tickle your fancy. think this is a 100% clone 6 masterpiece.

[Dale_Williams]

I liked some late 80s Renaissance, only ones I’ve had (aren’t they owned by a cult or at least a sect?)

For me, I still like Mayacamas (though I prefer the CS with age, I like the Merlot fairly young). I read a lot of people saying quality fell off, but to me I think it’s just people’s stylistic preferences. I like Dunn and Togni, but they need time. Corison and Chappelet are closer to what I think you are looking for than some other suggestions.

Mostly I’d rather just buy the older CalCabs, they’re generally not that expensive!

[Keith_Levenberg]

I mentioned Renaissance not just because the wines are made in a classic style but because the terroir is intensely interesting - if there is a more minerally, rockhead-style cabernet in California, I’ve never had it (and this characteristic is consistent throughout their lineup regardless of varietal composition).

[Evan_Dawson]

Nathan -

Before our recent visit to Napa I asked a similar question. Some board members recommended Pott, and we were bummed that they were out of town and closed during our visit. But simply based on what I read, I wonder if Pott might be in the mix for you.

[M_A_T_T_H_A_R_T_L_E_Y]

Track down some 87 and 86 Laurel Glen…magic…

[H_Wallace_Jr]

Cornerstone Howell Mtn from 04

Gamble Family Home

[Wes_Barton]

I’m a little surprised that since you noted Ridge, Mount Eden and SCMV (and since the region rated so highly on a recent poll here) that no one suggested other SCM wines.

Ridge and Mount Eden are still in classic form. SCMV doesn’t source from Bates any longer, so not the same pedigree, but still good.

Others include:

Stefania
Woodside
Martin Ranch - Therese Vineyards (aka Harvest Moon Vyd.)
Cooper-Garrod
Downhill (Napa fruit)
La Honda (Napa fruit)
Black Ridge
Kathryn Kennedy (I prefer their Small Lot, which is also 1/3 the price of the Estate)
Ahlgren - Bates Ranch

[Nathan_V]

@Wes Barton

I’m a little surprised that since you noted Ridge, Mount Eden and SCMV (and since the region rated so highly on a recent poll here) that no one suggested other SCM wines.

Ridge and Mount Eden are still in classic form. SCMV doesn’t source from Bates any longer, so not the same pedigree, but still good.

Others include:

Stefania
Woodside
Martin Ranch - Therese Vineyards (aka Harvest Moon Vyd.)
Cooper-Garrod
Downhill (Napa fruit)
La Honda (Napa fruit)
Black Ridge
Kathryn Kennedy (I prefer their Small Lot, which is also 1/3 the price of the Estate)
Ahlgren - Bates Ranch

Thanks. SCM seem like a good fit for my preferences. I’m gonna try to find some Stefania.

Had a bottle of 2005 Mount Eden recently that was fantastic. Had a 1992 Montebello that was excellent, though not as defined and precise as the 1993.

Also had a 2005 Hyde de Villaine blend that was goopy and terrible.

I haven’t been able to source any of these smaller producers locally.

[Roy_Piper]

I think Keenan comes close to fitting the bill.