Can an AFWE wine lover like strong IPAs?

[Robert.A.Jr]

Oh, and back to your question: Yes, you should be shamed. Maybe stoned. Definitely tarred and feathered.

PS. I’m telling Greg and Levenberg.

[Cris_Whetstone]

Modern IPA’s are like an over-oaked or maybe more properly, an overly stemmy wine. I always see them as somewhat gimmicky. If there is any malt character it is overwhelmed by the hops.

Hops are an additive after all. Malt is fermented to get beer. Much like grapes are fermented to get wine. Stems and oak, etc are added for certain qualities. Hops are the same in beer.

I think older school well hopped beers were something I always liked. Now days they are considered very tame but when I would pour them for people say 15 years ago or more they would complain they were bitter. Things like California Ambers, English IPA’s and Barleywines. Those beers always had a strong malt character that the hops gave another dimension to.

For me much like wine it’s about balance. I find the modern renditions to be a sort of stunt that caught on. I’ve always had mixed feelings about this style. On the one hand it gives people an intro to talking about and understanding what can go into beer. But if they remain there they miss a ton. Sort of like if people learn to like oaky Chards and never learn to find more balanced expressions.

[John_Ammons]

all I drink are New England style IPAs and DIPAS.

Likewise. And you have pretty good tastes in music too.

My favorite beverages are Burgundy and NE IPAs. Sweet spot is 7% alcohol, or at least a narrow range around that number, for whatever reason. Must get the body where I want it. While I do love a DIPA here and there, much over 8.5% gets iffy. John, that’s still way under your AFWE favorites.

[Matthew_King]

Nothing better than a few cleansing ales after a night of Burgundy wines!

Just ask Mr. Holmes.

[Sean_S]

My question was not whether one can like wine and beer. I see no problem there. I just wondered if, as a man of refined tastes, I’m vulnerable to shaming for liking full-throttled IPAs. Some people out there seem to view these as the ale equivalent of Mollydooker. (FYI, as with wine, I’m generally not keen on high alcohol beers and ales.)

Yes I love AFWE wines and many kinds of beer. 9% ABV DIPA’s are right up my wheelhouse often times…

Sean

[Charlie_Carnes]

My question was not whether one can like wine and beer. I see no problem there. I just wondered if, as a man of refined tastes, I’m vulnerable to shaming for liking full-throttled IPAs. Some people out there seem to view these as the ale equivalent of Mollydooker. (FYI, as with wine, I’m generally not keen on high alcohol beers and ales.)

John I am in your camp AFWE all the way. I can enjoy a hopped up IPA, but I generally tend to craft Pilsners. Thomas Creek Rise Guys Pilsner from Greenville is great example. But to the heart of the way I take your question, IPAs are not over made behemoths, over-wrought elixirs. They are generally, the way they’re supposed to be. OK, sometimes they can get out of hand, but they taste like they should. They’re just not non-AFWE!

[CFu]

are you talking about high IBU hopped beers or low IBU hopped beers? Vastly different. The juicy New England Style IPAs are juicy, soft and high in acid feel. The west coast IPA style (which has now become fairly unpopular) is more in your face with bitter hop.

The later doesn’t make sense as a AFWE lover, the former does. I rarely drank west coast IPAs (despite being in socal) but juicy hazebois IPAs? sign me up

[Dennis_Atick]

all I drink are New England style IPAs and DIPAS.

Likewise. And you have pretty good tastes in music too.

My favorite beverages are Burgundy and NE IPAs. Sweet spot is 7% alcohol, or at least a narrow range around that number, for whatever reason. Must get the body where I want it. While I do love a DIPA here and there, much over 8.5% gets iffy. John, that’s still way under your AFWE favorites.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

My question was not whether one can like wine and beer. I see no problem there. I just wondered if, as a man of refined tastes, I’m vulnerable to shaming for liking full-throttled IPAs. Some people out there seem to view these as the ale equivalent of Mollydooker. (FYI, as with wine, I’m generally not keen on high alcohol beers and ales.)

For any given thing, there’s somebody out there in the world willing to be mean about it.

My opinion: don’t worry about it!

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

…
For me much like wine it’s about balance. I find the modern renditions to be a sort of stunt that caught on. I’ve always had mixed feelings about this style. On the one hand it gives people an intro to talking about and understanding what can go into beer. But if they remain there they miss a ton. Sort of like if people learn to like oaky Chards and never learn to find more balanced expressions.

some kinda-related thoughts/comments/questions, offered for thought and discussion …

What about folks like me who started their craft beer journey with Pale Ales, Brown Ales, ESBs, and English ales, but then gravitated towards Porters, Stouts, IPAs, and lambics? (I’ve tried time and time again (it’s an ongoing thing, even now), but I just can’t get myself to truly like lagers).

Sure, I suppose I “miss” liking those styles I listed above, which I no longer like (with the exception of English ale when I’m super thirsty; but it’s damn near impossible to find the good ones over here, anyways), but I think that’s a red herring — it strikes me as just common sense that, generally, folks would prefer to like things rather than not like them? — at least when it comes to consumable items. But, do I really miss Pale Ales, Brown Ales, and ESB’s? No. I just don’t like them anymore.

It appears it’s possible to find the “more balanced expressions,” but actually prefer the “less balanced expressions”. It appears it’s possible for your “balanced expressions” to be the “intro to talking about and understanding what can go into beer.” In that vein, I’m not sure I know anyone who actually liked the first (West Coast) IPA they had (I do know some folks who enjoyed their first NEIPA).

[Chris_Seiber]

Modern IPA’s are like an over-oaked or maybe more properly, an overly stemmy wine. I always see them as somewhat gimmicky. If there is any malt character it is overwhelmed by the hops.

Hops are an additive after all. Malt is fermented to get beer. Much like grapes are fermented to get wine. Stems and oak, etc are added for certain qualities. Hops are the same in beer.

I think older school well hopped beers were something I always liked. Now days they are considered very tame but when I would pour them for people say 15 years ago or more they would complain they were bitter. Things like California Ambers, English IPA’s and Barleywines. Those beers always had a strong malt character that the hops gave another dimension to.

For me much like wine it’s about balance. I find the modern renditions to be a sort of stunt that caught on. I’ve always had mixed feelings about this style. On the one hand it gives people an intro to talking about and understanding what can go into beer. But if they remain there they miss a ton. Sort of like if people learn to like oaky Chards and never learn to find more balanced expressions.

Perfectly and very diplomatically said.

[Scott_Tallman]

are you talking about high IBU hopped beers or low IBU hopped beers? Vastly different. The juicy New England Style IPAs are juicy, soft and high in acid feel. The west coast IPA style (which has now become fairly unpopular) is more in your face with bitter hop.

The later doesn’t make sense as a AFWE lover, the former does. I rarely drank west coast IPAs (despite being in socal) but juicy hazebois IPAs? sign me up

I’m with Charlie on preferences, but there are so many different styles and sub-styles of IPA these days that I’d argue there are (thankfully) options for all different preferences - malty, high octane, super bitter, juicy, fruity, etc. The modern NEIPA is driven by yeast and the flavor possibilities of new(er) hops as opposed by malt. I am thankful for that development, while others raised on old school British and West Coast IPAs May not.

As for John’s Q, I don’t think there is any issue at all to like wines and beers that may seem incompatible to some. I’ve always lived by the maxim that one should enjoy what they enjoy. Within the wine and beer worlds, I have very strong preferences but am always willing to try anything and can generally find a few beverages in most categories that I enjoy (other than Barleywines, over oaked ooze monsters & oxidized whites).

[maureen_nelson]

are you talking about high IBU hopped beers or low IBU hopped beers? Vastly different. The juicy New England Style IPAs are juicy, soft and high in acid feel. The west coast IPA style (which has now become fairly unpopular) is more in your face with bitter hop.

The later doesn’t make sense as a AFWE lover, the former does. I rarely drank west coast IPAs (despite being in socal) but juicy hazebois IPAs? sign me up

Well I am a die hard burg head and the west coast style IPA, not NE IPA, is what I like. Now, some are too bitter for me but i still prefer west coast IPA.

A local guy created a beer long before the craft brew craze called Tupper’s Hop Pocket Ale that was on tap at my neighborhood pizza joint (Two Amys). I was bereft when the local craft brewer that made it got bought by one of the big guns and it was discontinued.

[jnbrown]

I live in San Diego and we probably have more micro (and big) breweries than anywhere.
Strong IPA is prevalent here and I hate it with a passion.
Tastes like a pine tree branch was brewed with it.
I love a good hefeweizen, Belgian or stout.

[John_Morris]

I’ve learned that most of you know way more about IPAs than I do, so I feel I’m in good company.

I’m afraid my subject heading was misleading, with the word “strong.” I was not referring to high alcohol IPAs. The ones I like have strong flavors, fruit and hops, but I avoid those over 6% or so.

So maybe I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Moreover, maybe I can now look down on those who like the over-hyped, over-hopped, Parkerized ones.

For any given thing, there’s somebody out there in the world willing to be mean about it.

My opinion: don’t worry about it!

Fear not, I’m not losing any sleep over this.

[R_Roberts]

If you only like AFWE wines, then yes, you should be embarrassed for liking “strong” IPAs. If AFWE are your favorites, but you’re really an omnivore, I see no problems.

[Chris_Seiber]

I live in San Diego and we probably have more micro (and big) breweries than anywhere.
Strong IPA is prevalent here and I hate it with a passion.
Tastes like a pine tree branch was brewed with it.
I love a good hefeweizen, Belgian or stout.

Totally agree. The trendy IPAs of recent years seem like a dick measuring contest. More bitterness, more alcohol, more sawmill flavor, more weird additives like orange rinds and coffee grounds. They’re also super filling and fatiguing to drink.

Do I find it surprising that “Gaja has ruined its wines with too much oak” or “Pontet Canet is totally spoofed” guy also loves those beers? Honestly, yes.

I’m not saying he can’t hold those views, or that I’m going to go attack him about it, or that he shouldn’t drink what makes him happy regardless of what I think, but yeah, it seems contradictory to me. Guilty as charged.

I also find it weird that AFWE guy likes 18 year old Scotch, which pretty much tastes like barrels, smoke and alcohol, but I’ve already bit off too much with this post.

[Jim_Brennan]

My taste in wine tends toward the AFWE – higher acid, not heavily extracted, less oak, blah, blah, blah.

I also like robust IPAs. But these days there’s a great deal of shaming of people who like hoppy, fruity IPAs.

Should I be embarrassed about liking them? Will this undermine my reputation for being a man of refined tastes?

Taste is what it is, but it does baffle me why an AFWE fan would want to drink turpentine beer.

[Robert_M_yers]

I think afwe should like an IPA with moderate hoppiness, Im thinking 50-70 ibu that express’ the hop character. Too many NEIPA fall below the structure line for me which then makes for a cloying beer style. It can then become tiresome much like a cdp with too much alcohol and fat. I do sometimes enjoy both plush ipa’s and a good cdp as an aperitif, but I don’t want to simmer on either all night.

I’m not sure what the post title means though as a “strong” ipa to me would be an aggressively hopped west coast ipa or maybe a triple with insanely high alcohol of around 10%+. Neither of these would be afwe for certain, but the plush mouthfeel, super juicy ones (of which there are far too many)certainly aren’t either imo.

Im in the minority but if I’m drinking ONE beer give me the treehouse best. If I’m drinking all night, I’ll take the Trilliums.

[CFu]

I think afwe should like an IPA with moderate hoppiness, Im thinking 50-70 ibu that express’ the hop character. Too many NEIPA fall below the structure line for me which then makes for a cloying beer style. It can then become tiresome much like a cdp with too much alcohol and fat. I do sometimes enjoy both plush ipa’s and a good cdp as an aperitif, but I don’t want to simmer on either all night.

I’m not sure what the post title means though as a “strong” ipa to me would be an aggressively hopped west coast ipa or maybe a triple with insanely high alcohol of around 10%+. Neither of these would be afwe for certain, but the plush mouthfeel, super juicy ones (of which there are far too many)certainly aren’t either imo.

Im in the minority but if I’m drinking ONE beer give me the treehouse best. If I’m drinking all night, I’ll take the Trilliums.

for the best NEIPA the point isn’t to be cloying, there’s balance with the plush. But for West Coast IPAs, the drive is to be hoppy as f. There’s plenty of terrible hazy beers that taste like a milkshake.