Can an AFWE wine lover like strong IPAs?

[Robert_M_yers]

Exactly but there are still not many that get it consistently right. There still isn’t a producer in Ohio who can do it. Maybe not even the Midwest, but They all try though over and over.

We just got pseudo/king sue recently. Nice beer but too plush imo.
Even Treehouse gets a bit plushy for me after 2 (or so ) though so maybe I don’t know what the hell im talking about. I’m a champagne acid freak at times too

Was Pliney’s drive to be Over the top? Even Zombie Dust would be Almost be considered AFWE these days. Most definitely How about MBC … Probably the best example of letting the ingredients shine as any beer out there, yet I’d call them more west coast inspired.

[Mike_Evans]

are you talking about high IBU hopped beers or low IBU hopped beers? Vastly different. The juicy New England Style IPAs are juicy, soft and high in acid feel. The west coast IPA style (which has now become fairly unpopular) is more in your face with bitter hop.

The later doesn’t make sense as a AFWE lover, the former does. I rarely drank west coast IPAs (despite being in socal) but juicy hazebois IPAs? sign me up

Well I am a die hard burg head and the west coast style IPA, not NE IPA, is what I like. Now, some are too bitter for me but i still prefer west coast IPA.

A local guy created a beer long before the craft brew craze called Tupper’s Hop Pocket Ale that was on tap at my neighborhood pizza joint (Two Amys). I was bereft when the local craft brewer that made it got bought by one of the big guns and it was discontinued.

I used to drink a lot of Tupper’s Hop Pocket and am saddened to learn that it was discontinued. In particular, it was fantastically refreshing after a long wine tasting.

[John_Morris]

I also find it weird that AFWE guy likes 18 year old Scotch, which pretty much tastes like barrels, smoke and alcohol, but I’ve already bit off too much with this post.

Uh-oh… Did I somehow let it drop that I love Lagavulin?

[Mike_Evans]

I don’t drink or follow beer closely enough to be able to offer much value to the discussion, but why should that be a bar to chiming in on WB? I’m definitely in the AFWE camp for wine and my beer preferences have been for IPAs, though I want some balance and not just a wall of bitterness. My favorite beer remains Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA, though I find it incredibly dangerous that a 9% beer drinks so easily.

I find sour beers more challenging to appreciate than bitter ones. I find that they are much like orange wines in that, while I’ve had some that I’ve liked, even then my appreciation tends to be more intellectual than hedonistic.

[Nathan_V]

IMO, Yes.

Big IPAs (especially SD, Greenflash style or Dogfish Head 90 minute style, though I find those two to be the best avatar’s of the style) are not AFWE. That being said, I like them (those two particularly) every now and then just like I like a big CA red every now and then with the right food.

Almost all the stuff from new breweries is gross to my palate.

NE IPAs are sort of basic, like white Burgundy. I’ll drink them but won’t work very hard to get them. Good for the beach.

For me, the classics are where it is at. We almost exclusively drink Mahr’s at home. The whole line, but with special attention to the unfiltered lager and Helles. There are other German beers that I like and also classic English ales, especially Sam Smith’s. I also love Anchor beers, especially the Steam on tap at Swan.

The “classic” styles I don’t really grok to that much are gueze, sours and especially gose which I hate.

[Jonathan_Loesberg]

My question was not whether one can like wine and beer. I see no problem there. I just wondered if, as a man of refined tastes, I’m vulnerable to shaming for liking full-throttled IPAs. Some people out there seem to view these as the ale equivalent of Mollydooker. (FYI, as with wine, I’m generally not keen on high alcohol beers and ales.)

To judge from my nephew and his partner, who are both beer geeks, yes you are vulnerable to shaming. Enjoying IPAs is like enjoying 07 Clos St. Jean CdP, or right bank garage wines, as far as I can tell.

[maureen_nelson]

I don’t drink or follow beer closely enough to be able to offer much value to the discussion, but why should that be a bar to chiming in on WB? I’m definitely in the AFWE camp for wine and my beer preferences have been for IPAs, though I want some balance and not just a wall of bitterness. My favorite beer remains Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA, though I find it incredibly dangerous that a 9% beer drinks so easily.

I find sour beers more challenging to appreciate than bitter ones. I find that they are much like orange wines in that, while I’ve had some that I’ve liked, even then my appreciation tends to be more intellectual than hedonistic.

The Dogfish 60 Minute IPA used to be what was in my refrigerator - I never worked up the nerve to try the 90 minute as the alcohol content scared me off! Despite that fear, when I was at a Nats game (where for years you really had to hunt to find something better than Bud or Miller Lite to drink - I won’t waste calories on those) I used to order Flying Dog’s Raging Bitch, which is well over 8% - but I loved the name so I perservered.

[Jim_Stewart]

I also find it weird that AFWE guy likes 18 year old Scotch, which pretty much tastes like barrels, smoke and alcohol, but I’ve already bit off too much with this post.

Uh-oh… Did I somehow let it drop that I love Lagavulin?

John, you obviously “contain multitudes”. I tip my hat to you, sir.

[Nate_Simon]

TL;DR
My grand unified theory from over 25 years of beverage enjoyment: NEVER apologize or feel bad about your tastes. Trust your palate. Always keep an open mind.

[Dennis_Atick]

NE IPAs are sort of basic, like white Burgundy. I’ll drink them but won’t work very hard to get them. Good for the beach.

[S_teve_R_edenbaugh]

Over and over…“drink what you like”…but what you like should be open to change, evolution, reevaluation. Personally, just as I value balance and complexity in my table wine…so too in the beer I choose to drink. I no longer enjoy highly hopped beer such as IPA ors DIPA. As a long term type II diabetic, I don’t drink very much beer and when I do it’s part of my overall dining experience. I do like sours, gose, fruit-driven Berliner Weisse, Kolsche, and wheat beers because they tend to pair well with my meals…unlike overhopped ales where after the initial sip, everything tastes more like something I’d choose to roll and smoke instead of drink.

[Chris_Seiber]

Over and over…“drink what you like”…but what you like should be open to change, evolution, reevaluation. Personally, just as I value balance and complexity in my table wine…so too in the beer I choose to drink. I no longer enjoy highly hopped beer such as IPA ors DIPA. As a long term type II diabetic, I don’t drink very much beer and when I do it’s part of my overall dining experience. I do like sours, gose, fruit-driven Berliner Weisse, Kolsche, and wheat beers because they tend to pair well with my meals…unlike overhopped ales where after the initial sip, everything tastes more like something I’d choose to roll and smoke instead of drink.

Many people ended up AFWE after starting out liking Marquis Phillips, so maybe people will evolve out of the “huger, more alcohol, more bitterness, more added flavors, more filling” brave new world of Frankenbeer into more refined versions over time. It sounds like some people in the thread are describing the early stages of that journey taking place already.

[Gabe_Berk]

Its funny, I tend to like full throttle, fruit forward, extracted, new world style wine. I always think of Sierra Nevada or Lagunita’s in the same light.

After 1 IPA, I seem to always find myself regretting the decision and gravitating towards Pilsner or Hefeweizen. Or crushing a crap ton of Coors Light while fishing, playing cards or golfing.

[John_Ammons]

NE IPAs are sort of basic, like white Burgundy. I’ll drink them but won’t work very hard to get them. Good for the beach.

First of all, yeah, that’s a head scratcher alright. Guess I love me some basic, 'cause I adore my white Burgs and hazy IPAs.

Second, Charlie makes a great point in the need for distinction between west coast and New England IPAs. Very different animals. Almost a misnomer to put the initials IPA equally after both. That said, my beer evolution was west coast → NE.

[Chris_Seiber]

After 1 IPA, I seem to always find myself regretting the decision and gravitating towards Pilsner or Hefeweizen. Or crushing a crap ton of Coors Light while fishing, playing cards or golfing.

Yeah, they’re filling and fatiguing to drink. I never have one and think I’d like to have more of them.

Going back to the wine comparison, it’s like you just finished a glass of Marquis Philips Integrity. You might have been impressed by it and enjoyed it to some degree, but you don’t really want another few glasses of it.

[Dennis_Atick]

NE IPAs are sort of basic, like white Burgundy. I’ll drink them but won’t work very hard to get them. Good for the beach.

First of all, yeah, that’s a head scratcher alright. Guess I love me some basic, 'cause I adore my white Burgs and hazy IPAs.

Second, Charlie makes a great point in the need for distinction between west coast and New England IPAs. Very different animals. Almost a misnomer to put the initials IPA equally after both. That said, my beer evolution was west coast → NE.

+2 on Charlie’s point. And the other head scratcher is that NE IPA is actually NOT the beer I want at the beach.

[larry_schaffer]

Such an interesting conversation, and you can clearly see ‘biases’ here, just like you do with wine, and ‘judging’ to some extent. I also think that many wine drinkers come at beer ‘differently’ - not to pair with food but to have on their own, and oftentimes to ‘refresh the palate’ or just to down without much other thought.

Though my FB and IG posts might attest to me drinking a lot of beer, I really don’t - it fills me up way too quickly, regardless of type. That said, I am drawn to certain types of beers - and they seem to somewhat follow my wine preferences. But let’s go backwards here.

Why does one move towards and ‘like’ AFWE wines? In some cases, it most likely is a ‘progression’ leading folks this way - starting off with higher alcohol, more fruit forward, less acidic and tannic wines towards the opposite because they realize that’s what their taste buds ‘prefer’. But I do believe some folks ‘move’ in this direction because there is a ‘positive connotation’ with drinking these types of wines in many circles and a ‘negative connotation’ with drinking ‘other’ types of wines. I know some will ‘scoff’ at this statement, but based on comments I’ve read and communications I’ve had, I certainly stand by it.

The same things can certainly happen with beer consumption, especially as one gets into them. We are usually ‘guided’ by someone ‘more knowledgable’ than us, and oftentimes this leads to ‘liking’ beers that you may actually not truly prefer. And that’s what it comes down to - preference. We can all learn to ‘drink’ anything, but at the end of the day, our taste buds lead us to what we truly ‘prefer’.

I personally am not a huge fan of a lot of West Coast IPAS (and any beer term is as wide as saying ‘Napa Cabernet’ without going into specific producers and is is helpful but not entirely) from a flavor perspective but dig the aromatics. They tend to not be overly ‘bitter’ to me but actually more ‘acrid’ - hoppy does not equal bitter. If I am going to have an IPA, which is not often, I am drawn to the juicier New England style or hazys.

Not sure if that helps - but I wanted to add to this conversation because, well, Covid-19

Cheers.

[Robert_Love]

I’m a proud AFWE and only drink DIPAs.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

I think afwe should like an IPA with moderate hoppiness, Im thinking 50-70 ibu that express’ the hop character. Too many NEIPA fall below the structure line for me which then makes for a cloying beer style. It can then become tiresome much like a cdp with too much alcohol and fat. I do sometimes enjoy both plush ipa’s and a good cdp as an aperitif, but I don’t want to simmer on either all night.

I’m not sure what the post title means though as a “strong” ipa to me would be an aggressively hopped west coast ipa or maybe a triple with insanely high alcohol of around 10%+. Neither of these would be afwe for certain, but the plush mouthfeel, super juicy ones (of which there are far too many)certainly aren’t either imo.

Im in the minority but if I’m drinking ONE beer give me the treehouse best. If I’m drinking all night, I’ll take the Trilliums.

for the best NEIPA the point isn’t to be cloying, there’s balance with the plush. But for West Coast IPAs, the drive is to be hoppy as f. There’s plenty of terrible hazy beers that taste like a milkshake.

Yes, yes, yes.

re: West Coast IPA’s for a second: there was a general stylistic change about 6(?) years ago towards hops that are more juicy and less bitter (think El Dorado, Mosaic, and other similar ones). So, while they are “hoppy AF,” the prevailing flavor profile has shifted to a less aggressive style.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

Exactly but there are still not many that get it consistently right. There still isn’t a producer in Ohio who can do it. Maybe not even the Midwest, but They all try though over and over.

I’ve had some very good ones from MN. Granted, I’ve had some bad ones, too. By memory, Modist and Omni make good ones, particularly Modist.

…
Was Pliney’s drive to be Over the top?

IMO, one of the most impressive aspects of both Pliny the Elder and Pliny the Younger was how well they carried their heft.