Caymus 2018 Cabernet on the shelf - 13.9%

[larry_schaffer]

13.9%. Don’t know anything about the vintage but it is certainly unusual for Caymus, if correct. Releasing so early is also strange. Greed seems unlikely. I assume they have the funds to release to a normal schedule. Otherwise they would do this in every vintage. Maybe the wine is best suited for early drinking, so why wait. Maybe they believe that the Euro tariffs provide an opportunity for <14% wines. A bit of a stretch. Not sure Caymus consumers even consider such things.

Kelly,

How dare you and Greg try to put this into logical terms . . .

There are so many producers who are releasing wines sooner than ever before. Why? I think it’s different in each case - but it’s happening more and more. Some do it simply because demand requires it. Look at something like Tempier Rose - they historically aged their rose longer to allow the wine to develop better, but are releasing it earlier and earlier due to ‘market demand’.

And I can’t believe how many notes I see on wines that are released prior to many folks bottling that same vintage. Does it make it ‘outrageous’ or ‘wrong’? Nope - just different strokes for different folks.

So many notes are on this board of wines that normally would be laid down for years and years before opening - but whether it be impatience or simply the ability to do so, folks are opening them younger and younger. And guess what - most wines these days are produced in a style that is approachable earlier than ever. Period. The days of needing to lay down wines for decades before they were ‘approachable’ is the exception these days rather than the rule.

As far as the 13.9% goes, it’s most likely not a tax issues, as that law changed and now you pay the same rate up to 15.9%. It could be - egads - that they did a ‘sweet spot’ analysis and found that that’s where the wine showed best perhaps? We may never know - unless the winery states it themselves.

I understand the dislike of the Wagner family that some possess for ‘what they have done’ - but I won’t vilify them for being a part of Meiomi, a product that I may not prefer but that many seem to enjoy quite a bit . . .

Cheers

[Wes_Barton]

It’s the price point that’s outrageous. With that 40th Anniversary Cab, they got or lucked into Parker invoking label bias, so he gave a wine his notes describe as being 90 points, for him, 96 points because how he prognosticated it would age. To me, it tasted like a large production lower shelf Napa Cab, comparable to Avalon. Enjoyability subject to preference, but comparable quality wines (with the same production level) available at a fraction of the price.

It’s not uncommon for Cabs from other regions of California to be released that early. You can make a solid, enjoyable, ready to drink 9 months from harvest Cab. It would (maybe) be a challenge to do that with Napa fruit, but not Santa Clara Valley, San Benito, Lodi…

[Philip_G]

Plenty of 2018s for sale on TW and wine.com with Caymus among the most expensive but Viader beating it out at $89.99.

[larry_schaffer]

It’s the price point that’s outrageous. With that 40th Anniversary Cab, they got or lucked into Parker invoking label bias, so he gave a wine his notes describe as being 90 points, for him, 96 points because how he prognosticated it would age. To me, it tasted like a large production lower shelf Napa Cab, comparable to Avalon. Enjoyability subject to preference, but comparable quality wines (with the same production level) available at a fraction of the price.

It’s not uncommon for Cabs from other regions of California to be released that early. You can make a solid, enjoyable, ready to drink 9 months from harvest Cab. It would (maybe) be a challenge to do that with Napa fruit, but not Santa Clara Valley, San Benito, Lodi…

Wes,

Are you saying that it’s difficult to make a ready to drink Cab from Napa fruit because of tannins or something else? As you and I both know, there are lots of ways to ‘tame’ those tannins, especially once that fruit hits the winery. Micro ox, lots of racking, some heat post fermentation can all lead to a higher percentage of polymeric pigments, thus ‘softening’ a wine. And I’ve had a few ‘younger’ Napa Cabs that have been quite drinkable young, even though the ‘intention’ is for then to be aged. Am I wrong for finding them ‘drinkable’ or are other people ‘hoping’ that they will be ‘age worthy’ and therefore ‘find’ them as such?

Cheers.

[Wes_Barton]

It’s the price point that’s outrageous. With that 40th Anniversary Cab, they got or lucked into Parker invoking label bias, so he gave a wine his notes describe as being 90 points, for him, 96 points because how he prognosticated it would age. To me, it tasted like a large production lower shelf Napa Cab, comparable to Avalon. Enjoyability subject to preference, but comparable quality wines (with the same production level) available at a fraction of the price.

It’s not uncommon for Cabs from other regions of California to be released that early. You can make a solid, enjoyable, ready to drink 9 months from harvest Cab. It would (maybe) be a challenge to do that with Napa fruit, but not Santa Clara Valley, San Benito, Lodi…

Wes,

Are you saying that it’s difficult to make a ready to drink Cab from Napa fruit because of tannins or something else? As you and I both know, there are lots of ways to ‘tame’ those tannins, especially once that fruit hits the winery. Micro ox, lots of racking, some heat post fermentation can all lead to a higher percentage of polymeric pigments, thus ‘softening’ a wine. And I’ve had a few ‘younger’ Napa Cabs that have been quite drinkable young, even though the ‘intention’ is for then to be aged. Am I wrong for finding them ‘drinkable’ or are other people ‘hoping’ that they will be ‘age worthy’ and therefore ‘find’ them as such?

Cheers.

Nine months from harvest?

Micro ox, lots of racking, some heat post fermentation can all lead to a higher percentage of polymeric pigments, thus ‘softening’ a wine.

WTF? Wasn’t that my point?

…and doing that to fruit that wants to be something else and costs 2-3 times the price???

[John_Glas]

Isn’t there less tax for lower alcohol %? Could be a factor here.

[brigcampbell]

I’d be up for a mega purple offline.

[Hank_Victor]

Isn’t there less tax for lower alcohol %? Could be a factor here.

14% was originally the cutoff but that was raised the last few years.

[K_John_Joseph]

Nevin I think we can all agree that Caymus Cab has turned into what some might call a high end grocery store/everyday wine shop wine… that being said they have to adapt for those customers hence the lower alc.
As far as releasing a product so early I would only assume that they have sold out of the previous vintage and they would be concerned about loosing those positions on the shelf. Stores don’t like empty spaces and will fill in very quickly. That being said they have to adapt to keep up with the demand… I’m sure they use double the new barrels based off of the shorter amount of time on wood. Once again just my thoughts on the situation.

The assumption that adapting to being a higher end grocery store wine requires a dramatic reduction in alcohol by volume is, in my opinion, farcical. That is, unless the Caymus had a stuck fermentation, resulting in a reduced ABV but considerably higher than usual RS. Then it would fit squarely into the grocery store buyer’s wheelhouse ALA Prisoner, Quilt, etc. But lower abv and increase acid don’t tend to sing to the average grocery store consumer, and it’s the opposite profile Caymus has been selling like hotcakes for a decade+ now.

Now, if they have sold out their 2017 vintage, in its entirety, already, power to them. If their response to open shelf space is dramatically and expeditiously changing their wine making process, resulting in a materially different wine than offered most years, simply to rush to market to capitalize on the holiday season…well…one might say that smacks of…honestly being super short sighted. As Stags Leap and Silver Oak can attest, producing atypical shitty wine can chisel into your costumer base, even for a Caymus-like steakhouse favorite.

[Michael_Feldman]

As an infrequent poster and several year observer(lurker). I continually find it amusing how fixated Berserkers are with Caymus.

[Philip_G]

As an infrequent poster and several year observer(lurker). I continually find it amusing how fixated Berserkers are with Caymus.

Tribalism groupthink.

[Nevin_Miller]

As an infrequent poster and several year observer(lurker). I continually find it amusing how fixated Berserkers are with Caymus.

Did you drink any 10 year old Caymus Cabs in the 80’s or 90’s?

If your answer is no - then it’s understandable that you are “amused” by this.

I’d use a different word than amused however.

[Anton_D]

As an infrequent poster and several year observer(lurker). I continually find it amusing how fixated Berserkers are with Caymus.

All the more for you!

Talking about Caymus now is like talking about the Doobie Brothers after Michael McDonald came on board. Talking about Caymus now is like talking about Buffy the Vampire Slayer after she came back from the dead.
It’s goofing off and chatting with friends, mostly.