Critique my Italy plans

Travel, Wine Tourism, and Restaurants Forum
21

Jay,
We spent a week in Rome in early June. Of our dinners this visit, Pierluigi, Roscioli, Al Moro, and Il Sanlorenzo were very good. We also enjoyed Antico Arco, but it was our first dinner and we were jet lagged. Il Sanlorenzo serves the best crudo I’ve eaten. If you go to Pierluigi, sit outside (weather permitting).

We’ve been going to Al Moro since our first visit to Rome in 1975. The waiters are old and surly. A timeless joint. Spaghetti Al Moro is my favorite pasta dish (perfectly al dente spaghetti, egg yolk(s), guanciale, a little chili, and a little pecorino) that doesn’t involve truffles.
When ordering All’Amartriciana, my wife asked If she could have spaghetti rather than bucatini.
Waiter: “No”.
When her pasta was served, she asked for more Parmigiano.
Waiter: “Pecorino, not Parmigiano. No, not until you taste it first. Like salt, a little is good, more is too much.”
Of course, her Bucatini All’Amartriciana was perfect, as served. She told the waiter; he nodded. Once.

I remain a fan of Roscioli. If you go, ask to sit at entry level, not downstairs. If I lived in Rome, I’d eat there weekly.

22

Skip Duomo and climb the Campanile instead. The line is shorter and you get a view of Duomo and everything else.

23

Was there most recently in April, 2017. I would consider a golf cart tour of Rome…instead of the walking tour…you will see more. Favorite restaurant in Rome is Girarrosto Fiorentino.

24

I disagree with a golf cart or Segway tour vs walking. You might see more stuff, but you will not experience Rome as you would walking around, stopping for a latte, looking in store windows, mingling with locals, etc.

25

If you don’t get lost while walking in Rome, you miss half the good stuff. [snort.gif] Completely agree. Italy needs to be experienced up close and personal. Smells, textures, sounds.

26

Having had a little more time to review:

Sunday 9/10
Would specialist markets appeal to stroll around? Often Sundays will bring an antique or crafts market somewhere. I tend to either websearch for mercato+domenica+city name, or use the tourist office site where these are often listed

This sounds perfect. Thank you!

Monday 9/11
leave for Florence
Afternoon Segway Tour of Florence
How does the tour align with check-in times in Florence? Of course you can always leave bags, but nice to get to your room, change, freshen up before heading out again. A light bite for lunch presumably as well. As before, does this need to be pre-booked or are you wanting to be flexible?

We’re arriving in Florence in the morning, will have a bite to eat for lunch, and then head out for the Segway tour which is already booked for 2:30. my thought is that it would both provide a good overview of where everything is in the city and not require walking which will be an advantage after all the walking in Rome.

27

Hi Jay
I ran a quick search:

Il mercatino di Ponte Milvio (dalle ore 9.00 alle 20.00, in piazzale di Ponte Milvio, la prima e la seconda domenica del mese) si estende sulla riva destra del Tevere con ben oltre 150 espositori. Perfetto per chi sta cercando mobili e complementi di arredo, collezionismo, antiquariato, oggettistica.

On the right bank of the Tevere, with over 150 stalls. Seems to be a decent mix of antiques, bric a brac, and other stuff for the home.

It is however a distance from the Colosseum and Piazza Navona (around 30 mins on the bus north of the latter)

Porta Portese, Via di Porta Portese: Seems much better placed, under a mile walk from the Colosseum, big and sounds like it’s very bustling. Plenty of reviews out there, and TBH I’d personally lean towards somewhere quieter, but depends on your preferences. It might also be that convenience wins the argument.

Mercato Borghetto Flaminio, Via Flaminia, 32 (a 30 min walk north of Piazza Navona) also better placed, open 10am-7pm on sundays. Surprised they charge an entrance fee, but a couple of euro is nothing really. Again read the online reviews, which seem similarly mixed, good and not so good.

28

Thank you Ian! We had a lot of fun at a similar market we ran into in Paris so one of these is definitely on the list.

29

We had wonderful walking tours in Rome with these guys https://www.througheternity.com/

30

Rome: so, you don’t have much time. Don’t waste it wandering aimlessly through Trastevere’s tourist traps or throngs of clubbing kids on Friday night (there’s good reason to visit this beautiful neighborhood, but there’s also that). Also, don’t waste any meal hoping you’ll just happen to find a worthwhile place. You might. But you’ll need a little luck.

Take a nap when you arrive if you need to, but get going as soon as you’re able. You’ll wake up, trust me!

Friday: For your first night in Rome, I’d recommend casual cucina Romana, then a long, late-night, after-dinner walk through the centro storico. (especially in August, daytime is the worst time to visit the major monuments, so do it after midnight!). Make your first night special as you don’t have nearly enough time to do anything but scratch the surface of the eternal city.

You might start the evening early with a negroni or aperol spritz at the gorgeous bar in the Hotel Hassler. You’re right at the Spanish Steps, so head on down to the Piazza di Spagna afterwards and head directly into the heart of the Centro Storico. The nightly passeggiata on Via del Corso will be in full swing.

Consider Armando al Pantheon http://www.armandoalpantheon.it/ for dinner (get reservations). Absolutely classic, utterly unpretentious, as popular with the locals as the tourists. In addition to the classic roman pastas (carbonara, l’amatriciana, gricia, cacio e pepe), you can try excellent versions of quinto quarto classics like trippa alla romana or rigatoni con la pajata.

Or you might start on the other side of central Rome in Trastevere with wine at a nice enoteca or negroni or aperol spritz on Piazza di Santa Maria. Then jump across the river to the Campo and consider eating at Salumeria Roscioli http://www.salumeriaroscioli.com/restaurant/ for classic Roman pasta dishes, hams and salumi, wine, AND NOTHING ELSE. Get reservations. After a long lingering dinner, stroll through the Campo di Fiore, then keep going to the Piazza Navona, Pantheon, Trevi Fountain.

Get lost. You’re never really far from where you might want to be. Just wander and be as mindful of the nooks and crannies as you are of the glorious Bernini fountains.

Sunday: it’s all about the lunch, so much so that many restaurants aren’t open for dinner. Again, cucina Romana! Since you’re visiting the Coliseum that morning, I’d definitely consider lunch in Testaccio which is just south of the ruins (one Metro stop if you’re using public transportation). I’d recommend something like Flavio al Velavevodetto http://www.flavioalvelavevodetto.it/ or Perilli (last meal before the rapture/earthquake/end of days: perilli - Elizabeth Minchilli).

On Sunday night, pizza is often the late-night default option. Maybe Emma Pizzeria Con Cucina to sample the other classic Roman pizza style - cracker thin crust - since you’re probably going to Pizzarium for pizza al taglio.

And, again, late at night is when you want to stroll the city, in the relative cool with fewer crowds. The monuments are lit up gloriously. This is when the magic of this city permeates the air, when rounding a dark corner can bring you face to face with some astonishingly grand beauty … if you go late enough, you can have it almost all to yourself.

31

I love Lucca, but I’ve always chosen to hang out there for several days. Because of the earthen walls and the car restrictions, it’s one of the largest pedestrian zones anyplace I’ve been in Italy. Great shops. I highly recommend renting a bike to ride around the wall. Napolean put his sister in charge of the area and she planted trees so the wall is like a Parisian promenade. It’s unique.

I picked up my wife at the Pisa airport last year and we went into the center to get a coffee. It was 6:30 or 7 pm and the streets were packed. It was wonderful. I was sorry I hadn’t been to the center before, despite several visits to Lucca. We had no problem finding street parking a short walk from the pedestrian center on a Saturday evening.

As Ian noted, some restaurants are closed in August. That was a real problem in Rome when I visited in 2001 in mid-August. I was limited to pizzerias and a few other simple places. Even the Gucci shop by the Spanish Steps was closed! Florence was much more alive when I headed there a few days later – no problem with dining options. No problems in Lucca on that trip, either.

32



In case it wasn’t clear from all the dates I posted above we’re travelling in September, not August.

Anyway, we have a walking tour of the major sights (Spanish steps, etc.) scheduled for Saturday afternoon so that’s out for our first night. If not Trastavere, is there a better district or place for shopping?

33

Ah my error. Never did get my head around the American MM/DD/CCYY date format.

34

The primary shopping area in Rome is “the Trident”, three large boulevards (Via di Ripetta, Via del Corso, and Via del Babuino) that stretch from the Piazza del Popolo to the Piazza di Spagna (where the Spanish Steps are).

Also good for shopping is the Prati district (across the Tiber, near the Vatican), especially Via Ottaviano and Via Cola di Rienzo. Be sure to get an espresso con cioccolate at Sciascia Caffè about two blocks off of Via Cola di Rienzo. While in Prati, you could also hit the Mercato Trionfale, which is one of the largest (maybe largest?) in Rome. The other market I’d recommend is Testaccio Market (in Testaccio, naturally).

There’s also a decent sized market in the Campo di Fiore in the morning/early afternoon spread around the statue of Giordano Bruno, and lots of consignment/second hand shops in that area mostly on Via dei Giubbonari. Trastevere also has some excellent craft shops, clothing shops, leather, etc., but a little more spread out.

Jay, at the risk of growing tiresome I have to say again: the major sites are going to be thronged with tourists during the day, especially Saturday, only barely outnumbering the hawkers selling cheap trinkets. I can’t impress upon you enough how severely this saps the magic of Rome. Go, certainly, but go again late at night. Remember how deserted it was when Marcello and Anita Ekberg went wading into the Trevi Fountain in La Dolce Vita? You can have nearly the same experience as early as 1am. Just don’t wade into the fountain. They really hate that.

35

Hi Richard
I really like that you stress this. Rather too many people go to Italy with the intent to see just the ‘best sights’ (i.e. most famous). With so many doing the same thing, and not really taking time to venture off the tourist trail and start to understand Italy, it does leave the way open for sellers of tourist tat, beggers, pickpockets and all those hangers-on that people (rather ironically) complain are endemic in Italy. They are not endemic, but they are where the tourist crowds are. I absolutely echo the advice to be smart about when you go to key tourist locations in Italy (and elsewhere). I like that Jay is planning their restaurants, as simply heading for the nearest place in a tourist area is too often a recipe for some overpriced rubbish. If not planned, even a mere 100-200 yard walk off the main tourist trail can avoid the worst excesses.

Regards
Ian

p.s Reported on the travel forum I also post on, they are now one week into an 11 week trial of restricting access to Trevi fountain between 9am and midnight. Not sure what the mechanism is, but worth reading up about for anyone going.

36

The city center car restrictions in Florence make getting from point A to point B interesting. I keep googling the best way to get somewhere and discovering that it’s a 15 minute walk or 20 minutes by taxi.

37

Yes, a car is not needed in Central Florence. You can walk anywhere in 15 minutes if you’re staying between the Duomo and bus/train station.

38

You obviously feel more comfortable on a tour group. I personally would blow off all the non-museum tours. The cities are easy to get around and when rushing from place to place, one is totally missing the best part of going to Italy which is to experience la Dolce Vita.

Hopefully, on the big Colosseum tour you’re not only seeing that otherwise it’s way too much time. As I don’t like crowds I avoid group tours; in case you skip that, it’s good to know that there is a alternate entrance to the Colosseum without long lines (easily found via a Google search)

39

Regarding the walk through central storico, there’s a natural route from the Trevi to the Parthenon to the Piazza Navarona to Campo di Fiore, all on pedistrian only streets. .

I second Roscioli, also their bakery nearby has some of the best pizza (and everything else) in town. Another worthy stop is the Forno is Campo di Fiore.

40

+2 Roscioli. And totally agree with Richard’s advice on pasta, ham and salumi and vino - and nothing else. But the recommended things they do very, very well.

FWIW, we’ve always loved every guide we’ve had with Context Travel. It sounds like you have some tours locked in, but if any of the Context walking tours sound tempting, I can’t speak highly enough of them. We’ve always booked a private tour, since between my wife and our 4 kids and my parents, that’s their max size. And we’ve been able to tailor the walks to our interests. But their regular walks all look awesome. Their docents are usually folks with graduate degrees (our Forum docent had 3!) and are incredibly personable. They’ve got themed walks that you could simply join, capping at 8 per walk. Some based on food, some based on art, some on architecture, etc… Very, very high quality experience if you want depth. We’ve used them for probably a decade. We like to think they started offering Family Walks because of us! If you can squeeze it in and enjoy the ancients, I highly recommend their Ostia Antica walk. We went sans guide and will book with them when we go again. Ostia is unbelievable. Its size rivals Pompeii, and it’s 15 min from FCO. It doesn’t look like you’ve got time to squeeze it in, but file it away for the future :slight_smile:.